This could save your life

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
rareposter
Posts: 207
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby rareposter » 17 Aug 2020, 9:44am

Cyril Haearn wrote:What, allow them to break the law, then punish them, or expect them to learn to read? No, the junction should be changed so it can only be negotiated at low speed, as explained in the video


The delay in changing anything is due to "loss of grazing land".
https://www.advertiserandtimes.co.uk/ip ... -land-swap

peetee
Posts: 2324
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: This could save your life

Postby peetee » 17 Aug 2020, 10:01am

Oh my giddy aunt how can the planners be considering this as a safe alternative? I quote:

The scheme drawn up the highways department would see the construction of a new 102-metre section of carriageway on the approach of the C97 from the west.

That would join the Beaulieu Road at an angle of 90 degrees, 50 metres south of the current crossroads.

Taking it south still allows approaching traffic wishing to go ‘straight ahead’ the potential to not slow sufficiently to negotiate the junction safely. They need only look right - a function that presently causes conflict on occasion and, regardless of the angle of approach, still could. By rerouting the road to the north those approaching vehicles have to first turn right and in so doing give way to both streams of traffic -an action that makes people far more cautious, observant and less hasty.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

Postboxer
Posts: 1678
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby Postboxer » 17 Aug 2020, 10:18am

Cyril Haearn wrote:What, allow them to break the law, then punish them, or expect them to learn to read? No, the junction should be changed so it can only be negotiated at low speed, as explained in the video


I was thinking more the presence of the camera would mean drivers take note of the stop sign. This would be cheaper than altering the junction, which could still be done and planned for, but the camera could be implemented far quicker. Maybe a sign on the cyclists approach, saying beware careless drivers approaching from the left?

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby Jdsk » 17 Aug 2020, 10:23am

peetee wrote:Oh my giddy aunt how can the planners be considering this as a safe alternative? I quote:

The scheme drawn up the highways department would see the construction of a new 102-metre section of carriageway on the approach of the C97 from the west.

That would join the Beaulieu Road at an angle of 90 degrees, 50 metres south of the current crossroads.

Taking it south still allows approaching traffic wishing to go ‘straight ahead’ the potential to not slow sufficiently to negotiate the junction safely. They need only look right - a function that presently causes conflict on occasion and, regardless of the angle of approach, still could. By rerouting the road to the north those approaching vehicles have to first turn right and in so doing give way to both streams of traffic -an action that makes people far more cautious, observant and less hasty.

Hampshire County Council's Notice
https://www.hants.gov.uk/community/publ ... s?id=10865

Screenshot 2020-08-17 at 10.23.09.png

Jonathan

peetee
Posts: 2324
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: This could save your life

Postby peetee » 17 Aug 2020, 10:32am

Thank you. The diagram makes it quite clear that taking it north would result in more land lost. Are we seeing another compromised solution due to more pressing priorities?
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby Jdsk » 17 Aug 2020, 10:38am

Agree about the preferability of taking the junction N rather than S and forcing R turns.

Anyone fancy doing the cost-effectiveness calculation, especially in our likely economic short-term? Could be a good time, see also potholes.

Jonathan

slowster
Posts: 1591
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: This could save your life

Postby slowster » 17 Aug 2020, 10:58am

Routing the junction North would lose significantly more land, especially taking into account the need for the new road to meet the North/South road at 90 degrees, rather than an acute angle if the new stretch were completely straight.

According to this Highways Guidance, the reason for preferrring right/left staggers is not because of any difference in safety at the first turn:

Right/left staggers are preferred to left/right staggers because traffic turning between the minor roads is less likely to have to wait in the centre of the major road

That is largely irrelevant in this case, because the North/South traffic levels are very low. Consequently cars are unlikely to need to wait to turn right, and even when they do it will not cause a significant build up of traffic behind them.

I would have thought that the proposal would deliver the much needed increase in safety, even if it was not possibly the ideal solution. This is probably a case of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good: getting the Verderers to agree to this is probably going to be difficult anyway.

Postboxer
Posts: 1678
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby Postboxer » 17 Aug 2020, 4:32pm

Perhaps a chicane just before the junction could slow traffic and mean it turns towards approaching cyclists whilst also minimising land loss either side of the road, as each side could gain a bit and lose a bit, only losing a portion of the land covered by a slightly longer road. Although chicanes are also used on racetracks so some drivers would race through them.

peetee
Posts: 2324
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: This could save your life

Postby peetee » 17 Aug 2020, 5:38pm

Postboxer wrote:Perhaps a chicane just before the junction could slow traffic and mean it turns towards approaching cyclists whilst also minimising land loss either side of the road, as each side could gain a bit and lose a bit, only losing a portion of the land covered by a slightly longer road. Although chicanes are also used on racetracks so some drivers would race through them.


Got it in one. All the unfenced roads in The Forest are restricted to a max speed of 40mph. This is, unsurprisingly, ignored by some motorists and in my experience the bisected road on this junction is one of the worst for speeding. It has a series of sweeping dips and bends that challenge the driving skills of some. It’s free of roadside vegetation for almost its entire length so the same drivers would probably argue that the danger to roaming wildlife - which is of the highest concern in the area and, they might add, the ONLY reason for reduced speeds - is very low. Beaulieu Motor Museum is also just down the road. Add all those factors to the blind spot issue and it’s no wonder this junction stands out as high risk.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

irc
Posts: 4779
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: This could save your life

Postby irc » 17 Aug 2020, 8:28pm

Why not just make the junction a roundabout? A correctly designed RAB prevents a straight fast line through so traffic has to slow. Minimal extra use of land.

slowster
Posts: 1591
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: This could save your life

Postby slowster » 17 Aug 2020, 9:06pm

irc wrote:Why not just make the junction a roundabout? A correctly designed RAB prevents a straight fast line through so traffic has to slow. Minimal extra use of land.

Not according to the author of the original article linked to in the OP, and the fact that the Highway Authority is now finally proposing to do as he suggested in his article, suggests that he is right. Ditto the other solutions being suggested now, e.g. a chicane (chicanes can slow drivers, but they will also focus drivers' attention on negotiating the chicane, so are a poor solution to the constant bearing decreasing range issue).

Bez deserves recognition and gratitude for the investigation he did and the articles he wrote about this junction, and if and when the staggered junction is finally built, it will probably be due in large part to him.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: This could save your life

Postby Jdsk » 17 Aug 2020, 9:43pm

slowster wrote:Bez deserves recognition and gratitude for the investigation he did and the articles he wrote about this junction, and if and when the staggered junction is finally built, it will probably be due in large part to him.

Yes. Excellent video.

Jonathan