Should you have lights on during the day?

[Cyril Haearn]

My stated position is that I think dipped headlghts are a useful safety aid on cars in rural situations.
Sometimes I would apply that to bikes.
I am not sure whether flashing or steady is better though I tend to use steady when I do.

I wonder if any urban cyclists would like to comment on the usefulness of a front light (flashing or steady) in avoiding the dreaded dooring?

I ride outside the dooring zone, if there is too little room I wait or ride by very slowly, ready to shout

Cycling by some parked vehicles outside the dooring zone recently, a PoB overtook me on the inside

[PDQ Mobile]

I ride outside the dooring zone, if there is too little room I wait or ride by very slowly, ready to shout

Cycling by some parked vehicles outside the dooring zone recently, a PoB overtook me on the inside

If one is always able to ride outside the dooring zone then I guess it's pretty obvious lights won't help avoid it!!
I cycle along a small town high street pretty often, not such a wide street and parked cars all along, in some places both sides. My tactic is out but maybe not right out, a place where I can swerve to avoid an opening door. I seldom use a front light in the day time and doors are sometimes opened. There are not so very many cyclists.
So it's a genuine risk and one is obviously very watchful, though I can't say I always use Bryn's approach of cycling so slowly that I could stop!!
I mean thats really very slow, and I am not PDQ for nothing!
So I was genuinely interested in a more "solidly urban" perspective on it.
So any other opinions apart from Bryn, whose tactics rather render the question irrelavent.

As a car driver it is my feeling that a decent light is probably helpful. Perhaps the one instance where flashing is better than steady?

Answers on a postcard please!

[[XAP]Bob]

If you have to swerve then you aren't outside the door zone, and are vulnerable to following traffic which decides to overtake at the same time as someone throws a door in your face.
We have seen that this can be fatal.

As for lights - when I am driving (daytime) I see cyclists before I register whether they have lights or a dressed like a highlighter.
There is no reason to need lights or anything else, and we are not in a position to throw 100W of 'waste' energy from our engines at stupidly powerful lights that might make a difference in a very small proportion of cases anyway.
If I had a hundred watts to spare then I'd be riding Le Tour... or a motorbike.

There is no evidence to suggest that DLRs (on a bike) actually make any difference - and frankly I don't care if a motorist sees me from 150 yards or 130yards - both give plenty of time to react and slow. I'm more concerned by those who just don't react, and a light won't help them...

There is evidence to suggest that it's likely to be flagged up as something that 'dead cyclist' wasn't doing.


NB - I have run my rear dynamo light at all times for years, because it acts as a voltage limiter, and my rectifier setup is known to fail at high voltages.

[reohn2]

But, on a personal basis, do you nobly volunteer yourself as a conceivably sacrificial tool in the process of training drivers to look out for things without lights, or do you adopt what measures you perceive to be potentially effective in the interests of making it home in one piece?

I of course choose lights,particularly a VERY bright rear one,my reason is the number of cars with DLR life.It's that simple for me.
I wish to be seen and don't want to be knocked off,if lights on the bike in board daylight help with that situation in present day circumstances its a no brainer.

[PDQ Mobile]

XAP Bob
I am not at risk from following traffic if I only have to swerve a little, the street in question is too narrow and I tend to be moving along quite well keeping pace with the traffic.
It is only a short section and I am very aware of following traffic.
It is rare that I am overtaken along it actually.
My position is quite far out but maybe not enough to avoid a fully flung open door.
A sort of good Buddhist middle way.
I have to say the tactic has stood the test of time.
((Not convinced by the energy saved question.
It's nothing compared to physically moving a car.
If it saves a life money well spent. IMV ))

[pwa]

I am only talking about motor vehicles.
I cycle without day lights generally; in some conditions I will use them.

But yes it is all about being seen.
Anything that helps another road user see an oncoming car is useful. Catch the eye.

The rural junction classic example.
It's not about bullying or "get out of my way" just being seen.
A great many rural accidents occur from overlooked vehicles on junctions and are often severe, side impact.
And yes vehicle colour is a very important factor.

Why do you want other road users to see you if not to get out of your way?

People seeing each other on the road, whatever their mode of transport, is a good thing. My Dad is partially sighted and my Mother, who steers him when they go for a walk, doesn't see as well as she once did. If a light on a car or a bike catches her attention as she is about to step out onto the road that must be a good thing.

[[XAP]Bob]

If it saves a life money well spent

So let's promote driver helmets, and ban drinking.

I'm sorry - but there isn't even any evidence to support that it might save lives, and there is precedent to think that it might do the opposite on a population basis.

I am not at risk from following traffic if I only have to swerve a little, the street in question is too narrow

Then there is no reason no to take the extra space to start with, since there isn't space for anyone to pass anyway it's safest to make that blindingly obvious.

[Cunobelin]

Personally the best visibility aid I have ever had is the AirZound

It is amazing how man drivers suddenly see you after a quick blast at full power.

[[XAP]Bob]

Personally the best visibility aid I have ever had is the AirZound

It is amazing how many drivers suddenly see you after a quick blast at full power.

Yes, that did work quite well... always a bit late for my liking though

[mjr]

I am only talking about motor vehicles.
I cycle without day lights generally; in some conditions I will use them.

But yes it is all about being seen.
Anything that helps another road user see an oncoming car is useful. Catch the eye.

The rural junction classic example.
It's not about bullying or "get out of my way" just being seen.
A great many rural accidents occur from overlooked vehicles on junctions and are often severe, side impact.
And yes vehicle colour is a very important factor.

Why do you want other road users to see you if not to get out of your way?

People seeing each other on the road, whatever their mode of transport, is a good thing. My Dad is partially sighted and my Mother, who steers him when they go for a walk, doesn't see as well as she once did. If a light on a car or a bike catches her attention as she is about to step out onto the road that must be a good thing.

It's a good thing if they get/stay out of the way? The streets have been hijacked and loads of people don't see the tragedy of the commons repeating again...

[PDQ Mobile]

If it saves a life money well spent

So let's promote driver helmets, and ban drinking.

I'm sorry - but there isn't even any evidence to support that it might save lives, and there is precedent to think that it might do the opposite on a population basis.

I am not at risk from following traffic if I only have to swerve a little, the street in question is too narrow

Then there is no reason no to take the extra space to start with, since there isn't space for anyone to pass anyway it's safest to make that blindingly obvious.

Drinking to excess and driving is banned already.
A little is said to have beneficial health effects!

I take your point about going the "extra" out.
Let's just say I am comfortable with my position as a compromise between safety and yet not imposing myself. A quiet way but I am super alert to the dooring danger and I am confident that I can avoid it. Touch wood!
I carry no front light in normal daylight.

I was however interested in the view about dooring and the likelihood of a front light helping to prevent it. So far only yourself and Bryn have replied,
Both of you advocate leaving loads of room but surely even you must find yourself in situations where you need to come in closer?
You clearly see no benefit in lights but I am not so sure.

[PDQ Mobile]

It's a good thing if they get/stay out of the way? The streets have been hijacked and loads of people don't see the tragedy of the commons repeating again...

Yes It's good thing to see a car approaching at 60 miles an hour! Very healthy. Why not?
The car in question is going about it's lawful business and has right of way
And hopefully has decent brakes just in case! Hmmm.

[Cyril Haearn]

Why do you want other road users to see you if not to get out of your way?

People seeing each other on the road, whatever their mode of transport, is a good thing. My Dad is partially sighted and my Mother, who steers him when they go for a walk, doesn't see as well as she once did. If a light on a car or a bike catches her attention as she is about to step out onto the road that must be a good thing.

It's a good thing if they get/stay out of the way? The streets have been hijacked and loads of people don't see the tragedy of the commons repeating again...

I am familiar with the ToC from writings by Jared Diamond, Adams, Davis
Perhaps you could briefly describe how it applies here, especially for those unfamiliar with it
Diolch yn fawr

[[XAP]Bob]

No - ban all drinking. Think how many lives would be saved - and if it saves one life it must be worth it...

[pwa]

Why do you want other road users to see you if not to get out of your way?

People seeing each other on the road, whatever their mode of transport, is a good thing. My Dad is partially sighted and my Mother, who steers him when they go for a walk, doesn't see as well as she once did. If a light on a car or a bike catches her attention as she is about to step out onto the road that must be a good thing.

It's a good thing if they get/stay out of the way? The streets have been hijacked and loads of people don't see the tragedy of the commons repeating again...

Well if my parents were to step out in front of a car or bike it would most likely be on the main street of Llantwit Major, where 99% of traffic is moving at a civilised speed and willing to stop for vulnerable people who are crossing. But with the old folk getting a bit confused about things these days I could imagine one of them miscalculating and stepping out at the wrong moment. I do think a light could make the difference, an extra something to notice in the corner of one's eye.

(My parents moved to LLantwit from their former home in southern Ireland and one of the first things they commented on was how considerate drivers were for old people trying to cross the road, so the image of aggressive drivers using lights to tell people to get out of the way doesn't fit. Maybe in other places it might, but not there.)