Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by SA_SA_SA »

[XAP]Bob wrote:Off road lights need to be limited to off road,

Unless used as a switched main beam alongside a proper 'dipped' beam. :)
Last edited by SA_SA_SA on 18 Jan 2018, 2:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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horizon
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by horizon »

Cunobelin wrote:This brings up the point of how poorly cycle lights are designed.


It's quite complicated because bicycle lights fulfill more than one function:

1. Being seen (while moving)
2. Seeing the road ahead in complete darkness (main beam)
3. Seeing the road ahead while there is an oncoming vehicle (dipped beam)
4. Seeing the immediate road ahead and its condition
5. Being seen (while at a standstill)
6. Being noticed by an unobservant driver
7. Being identified as a bicycle

I think we need more than one light, I think we need a dipping function and I think we need a new legally-enforced flashing colour at the front to distinguish a bicycle from other road users.

Not to mention more than 2 hours' lighting time!
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by SA_SA_SA »

No to requiring flashing front lamps. Better to look like an approaching motorbike anyway.
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Mr Evil
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by Mr Evil »

pwa wrote:...My main gripe with bike lights has always been that beams can be too narrow. I'm all for controlling how much light goes up, but sideways spill is essential on dark twisty lanes.

I have a torch-style front light with a typical circular beam. I put a fresnel lens on it, which spreads it out sideways nicely while also making it less blinding from ahead.

Although I definitely agree that bicycle lights would benefit from more appropriate beam patterns, ones with a sharp cutoff don't put enough light upwards to spot overhanging vegetation, such as grows out of hedgerows and does its best to scrape your face off. They also depend on the user setting them up correctly, which is never going to happen (even cars, which have to pass a test for this, often have them misaligned).
mercalia
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by mercalia »

pwa wrote:Just for a bit of perspective it is worth considering how much better cycle lights are today than they were a couple of decades ago. At least we have moved on from not having enough light to how to deploy the adequate light that we do have.


yes I wish I still have an NeverReady front light to remind me how bad they were then - did any one ever venture into the sticks with them? did they ever come back in one piece?
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Motor vehicle lights need redesigning and lowering height wise and in brightless/intensity

The ECE standard already requires high mounted lamps to be more dipped (although only 2 choices: I think they are considering making it a stepless calculation).

I don't find properly adjusted non cold white headlamps dazzling* (although electronic lamps have a higher 625cd allowance than the 437cd for halogen that seems reasonable as from memory the mini in the TRL pedal reflector test was giving 1000cd from its alternator driven(voltage higher than test voltage) filament headlamps. *other than once some ununsually small projector lamps on a bus (normal sized projector ones are OK to me).


....A while back, on a lit, restricted 30mph road in a queue of traffic busily blinding each other with their HiDlights, ...

I don't find properly adjusted NON-cold-white headlamps blinding under streetlamps, so surely they are just setup wrong? HID lamps should be limited to 625cd (cold white will be brighter in effect). Plus how can one tell the difference between extra white bright halogen, Led AND HIDS (old hat now).
Lamps of less than 2000lumen will have a manual adjuster beside driver, so police could just say your headlamps are dazzling me, adjust them with that and then do it properly before I see you again....
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tatanab
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by tatanab »

mercalia wrote:yes I wish I still have an NeverReady front light to remind me how bad they were then - did any one ever venture into the sticks with them? did they ever come back in one piece?
Of course we did. Winter club runs, returning from evening time trials etc. The huge difference was that there was not so much light around from motor vehicles or houses with outside "security" lights, so you could actually see beyond your light and well enough with night vision. Motor vehicle lights have got brighter and brighter as they complain that they cannot see beyond the light so obviously they need more light, and now pedal cycle lights seem to be going the same way.

Beam shape - the 80s onwards Ever Ready had Fresnel lens to collect/collimate the light instead of spraying it around, and I used 80s Union dynamo headlights that did the same and were a very good indeed for their time.
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by mjr »

mercalia wrote:yes I wish I still have an NeverReady front light to remind me how bad they were then - did any one ever venture into the sticks with them? did they ever come back in one piece?

I grew up in "the sticks". I think I had some cheap Halfords clones, which although BS-approved, didn't have as effective a lens as the NeverReadies. I remember peering for the join between road and verge, as well as a preference for using larger roads that had white edge lines, or at least contrasting kerbs, so it was easier to see the edge. The roads were quieter then, although not quiet. Did we find it easier to see when all lights - car headlights, yellow streetlamps, house porch lights - were dimmer than now?

Now, if you want really bad, I have some of the green-tinged early LED headlights around here somewhere, misleading stamped with the BS approval mark for the reflector. Not much hope of seeing much with them! They get thrown about as low-energy nightlights now.
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pwa
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by pwa »

Thinking about the original question, I wonder if in fact bicycle lights are the area of cycling technology that has evolved the most over the last three decades. With regard to performance, cycle lighting has moved on further than bike frames, tyres or anything else I can think of. And every year throws up something better.

There are gaps I would like filled. The AA battery run Hope Vision 1 is no more, and I'm not aware of another AA powered front light that is as well made. I know the B&M Ixon thing has a good beam, but it does not have the build quality of the alloy bodied Vision 1. Getting the best of those two lights in one unit would be nice. I like the idea of running lights on replaceable rechargeable batteries.
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Sweep
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by Sweep »

When was fhe vision 1 discontinued pwa?

Have long feared that this would happen.

Luckily i have two, one of each version.
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Pastychomper
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by Pastychomper »

mjr wrote:Now, if you want really bad, I have some of the green-tinged early LED headlights around here somewhere, misleading stamped with the BS approval mark for the reflector. Not much hope of seeing much with them! They get thrown about as low-energy nightlights now.


Some time in the '90s I went from Nottingham to Derby at night using only a set like that. I used back roads and some parts were so dark that I could see three green spots on the road ahead. :lol: The only problem I had was dazzling by the occasional car driver coming the other way - I'm pretty sure they could see me, but most didn't bother to dip their headlights for some reason.

Now I've upgraded to an LED torch with a swivelling head that lets me dip the beam as much as I want. It's good for fast-ish rides on very dark roads, but not perfect - I'm planning to get a proper light soon and watching threads like this with interest.
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pwa
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by pwa »

Sweep wrote:When was fhe vision 1 discontinued pwa?

Have long feared that this would happen.

Luckily i have two, one of each version.

I think they stopped making them a couple of years back. I think you will still find them on sale in a few places, but not discounted enough to tempt me. The beam pattern left a bit to be desired but the robustness and the ability to take high capacity NiMH batteries made them great for commuting. I hate spending a lot on a light that will be trash when the battery fails.
reohn2
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by reohn2 »

The utility cyclist wrote:Motor vehicle lights need redesigning and lowering height wise and in brightless/intensity long before bicycle lights are put on the table to be a big problem. The primary reason why urban lights are used so bright on bicycles is to combat the retina burning brightness na dridiculous height of that found on every modern motor.
Police ignore this despite it being part of law.

Being 'blinded' by a bicycle light is about one occurence to every 10,000 for motors, it's really not that big a deal and as I said is driven by the allowed increase in motorvehicle lights in the first instance

I agree totally with this point,if(and it's a big one)motor vehicle head lights on modern cars were controlled better,both the actual stray high level light and incredible brightness,then life on the road would be a bit more pleasant for others.
As for bicycle lights,I agree they should also be controlled but in the overall scheme of things bike lights are a minutest drop in the ocean of UK vehicle lighting problems to have almost no impact on other roadusers
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

reohn2 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Motor vehicle lights need redesigning and lowering height wise and in brightless/intensity long before bicycle lights are put on the table to be a big problem. The primary reason why urban lights are used so bright on bicycles is to combat the retina burning brightness na dridiculous height of that found on every modern motor.
Police ignore this despite it being part of law.

Being 'blinded' by a bicycle light is about one occurence to every 10,000 for motors, it's really not that big a deal and as I said is driven by the allowed increase in motorvehicle lights in the first instance

I agree totally with this point,if(and it's a big one)motor vehicle head lights on modern cars were controlled better,both the actual stray high level light and incredible brightness,then life on the road would be a bit more pleasant for others.
As for bicycle lights,I agree they should also be controlled but in the overall scheme of things bike lights are a minutest drop in the ocean of UK vehicle lighting problems to have almost no impact on other roadusers



Not just more pleasant for others - but more pleasant for motorists as well
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Re: Should bicycle lights be redesigned?

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:Not just more pleasant for others - but more pleasant for motorists as well

My bad grammar but I meant all road users :wink:
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