Left Hook by an e-bike

[kwackers]

people who have forgotten how to ride a bike properly and are now going faster than they did when they last rode decades ago (because of the motor).

Forgotten how to ride a bike? Almost certainly.

Going faster? I doubt it.
If you don't know how to ride a bike in 'modern' conditions, i.e. what's expected of you, what others will do around you etc then the speed doesn't really come into it. These folk would cause a spike on any bike except that they were enticed back to the fold by the assist.

I've never actually cycled in NL but I've watched them on the cycle paths and I didn't instantly 'get' the protocol. I suspect I'd also be a danger for a while until I figured it out.

What we really need to see is what the numbers actually are, this is after all one of the "safest" cycling places in the world so presumably very few people get ksi'd so it would only take a handful of incidents of older riders on ebikes to completely throw the numbers whilst still remaining nothing other than a statistical blip (proving ones agenda notwithstanding).

[The utility cyclist]

Looking at their posts in the electric car thread I think they simply have an issue with electric vehicles. Whether it's the vehicles or they're batterophobic who knows.

On the plus side you'd struggle to find any technological shift that didn't have legions of decriers so it's just par for the course of the human race.

I believe what the utility cyclist wrote about older e-bike riders and 'accidents' until I see some figures to prove or disprove

I suspect what you're seeing is merely that e-bike riders tend to be older in general. There are few analyses of e-bike casualties yet. One of the few is https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7514002231 about Switzerland which concludes "With respect to differences between the injury severity of e-bikers and bicyclists to-date no clear statement can be drawn. It is suggested to regularly evaluate e-bike accidents to show trends and/or identify changes."

STATS19 doesn't have different Type of Vehicle codes for e-bikes and other cycles, despite some form of e-bike existing in UK law since the 1980s if not before. I don't know whether that's changed with CRASH.

Anyway, left-hooking isn't going to be recorded in any police reports if it doesn't result in a collision or getting stopped, so submit it to http://www.CollideOScope.org.uk as a near miss if you want it recorded.

And yet the massive disparity in deaths in NL is from the 3 age groups that are using e-bikes in huge swathes, given it's the complete opposite for all the other groups in terms of deaths on bikes I'd say there is plenty of evidence that there is an unexpected negative effect of e-bike use.
Aside from what I wrote earlier, it seems that it tallies with what is written here.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2014/02/th ... eptic.html

I'm not against e-bikes, however I truly think that the max speed (under electric power only) should be reduced to 12mph to be classed as a bicycle, this would in fact extend the range considerably in any case which is far more desirable IMHO and most definitely lowers the increase in risk regarding speed increases compared to ones normal own powered speed.

[mjr]

And yet the massive disparity in deaths in NL is from the 3 age groups that are using e-bikes in huge swathes, given it's the complete opposite for all the other groups in terms of deaths on bikes I'd say there is plenty of evidence that there is an unexpected negative effect of e-bike use.
Aside from what I wrote earlier, it seems that it tallies with what is written here.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2014/02/th ... eptic.html

Please link the massive disparities and usage rates.

MCA's piece is mostly fair enough, but comments like "I don't see many e-bikes in Copenhagen" seem dated now that even their bike hire docks are full of them. I wonder what his opinion is, 4 years later. I'll go ask on one of his facebook groups.

However, some of his numerical comments seem at least incomplete on that page, like 10% of fatalities being e-bikers and most of them elderly... well, traditionally 16% of the population is elderly and we'd need estimates of e-bike use among the age groups to comment on proportionality...

[kwackers]

I'm not against e-bikes, however I truly think that the max speed (under electric power only) should be reduced to 12mph to be classed as a bicycle, this would in fact extend the range considerably in any case which is far more desirable IMHO and most definitely lowers the increase in risk regarding speed increases compared to ones normal own powered speed.

12mph, 15mph...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
3mph? Seriously? You think reducing speed by 3mph will have any worthwhile effect?

And why under electric only? If 15mph is dangerous surely we need to reduce the speed of all bikes to 12mph?
After all a moderately fit pensioner can easily exceed 12mph under their own power.

Out of interest what are the death rates? I was under the impression that the NL had excellent bicycle safety which suggests the numbers are small which in turn suggests that there is unlikely to be any useful statistical data available and more importantly suggests that it's a bit of a harsh penalty that affects vast swathes of people and for no or little benefit.

OTOH, I'm of the opinion that the current speed limit should be removed. I think the 'hard' limit causes far more problems and since the max speed is determined by motor power then the motor power should be used giving a 'soft' speed limit.
Perhaps the 'hard' speed limit is actually the problem and reducing it would create more?