Alsatian dog attack

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
ScottishGeek
Posts: 31
Joined: 1 Jul 2015, 7:10am

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby ScottishGeek » 11 Feb 2018, 7:51pm

Few things more scary than a large aggressive dog coming at you whilst you are on a bike! Follow it up with the police as they suggest and push for a result. You were lucky not to be bitten, others may not be.

Only dog I was bitten by was when I was a kid and a police dog, under the control of its handler, attacked me as I cycled past. You can bet your house on the fact they took thst one seriously!

EDIT: updated to stop folk dragging a serious topic off track.
Last edited by ScottishGeek on 11 Feb 2018, 9:09pm, edited 3 times in total.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 11 Feb 2018, 8:00pm

ScottishGeek wrote:Few things more scary than a large aggressive dog coming at you on a bike!

Indeed, fortunately most can't ride yet - Mind you, were they able they would focus drivers' minds around cyclists, I'm sure. :P

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pete75 » 11 Feb 2018, 8:11pm

ScottishGeek wrote:Few things more scary than a large aggressive dog coming at you on a bike!


What about a pair of them coming at you on a tandem???

ScottishGeek
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Joined: 1 Jul 2015, 7:10am

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby ScottishGeek » 11 Feb 2018, 9:03pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
ScottishGeek wrote:Few things more scary than a large aggressive dog coming at you on a bike!

Indeed, fortunately most can't ride yet - Mind you, were they able they would focus drivers' minds around cyclists, I'm sure. :P

I appreciate it can we taken that way but please don’t jest in a thread that caused a frightening experience for a fellow cyclist!

Tangled Metal
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Feb 2018, 9:23pm

I've a few postie friends. I've seen their dog bites before and it's not a nice thing to have. One was off work for two weeks, he couldn't walk without problems. Can't remember details but the puncture wounds and the crush type bruising were too painful to walk on far enough to work as a postie.

Glad the Op got away and the dog wasn't really interested in biting. Let's hope someone gets done for not having control over that dog. I hope the police are sincere in wanting to follow through. Please make sure you follow through with a formal complaint.

eileithyia
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby eileithyia » 12 Feb 2018, 9:15am

Hi Debs, hope you are OK? Have not read all the responses, but to share my experinece.

Cycling into work for a 11:30 start I too was subjected to a chase by a dog. A bit of 'old' road now cycle route near some industrial estates at the back of Preston. Started down it, dog walker with Alsatian, walker on the phone so not in control of dog.... dog sees my approach starts running toward me... by now out of reach and control of walker who suddenly realises what's going on.... I sprint past with handler yelling to 'Stop you stupid bitch' Charming..... route has vehicle gates with narrow ones for other uses to get through... so had to negotiate these....

It all settled down... and when I reached end of route and was on a road with others around, I stopped and phoned police. There was a parked car near entrance to cycle route and I saw the owner and dog get in this car... I was able to observe reg plate.

I was (like you) frightened and shaken.. ( I have had a long standing fear of dogs since a toddler though these can be fairly rational regarding different types of dogs that might less frightening), it also struck me how vulnerable I was had I stopped as requested and been held against the gate by the dog until the owner retrieved it... with no one else around to witness it... I could have been attacked / robbed etc....

I was also aware (with housing nearby) it could have been someone walking their own dog... perhaps someone who has a toddler with them, having dropped off an older child school.....

Am guessing it was a security guard with dog, walking it after a shift.. but it certainly wasn't under control.

Police attended my place of work for a statement, but also said shortly after my call they had had a second call from someone who thought their dog might have frightened someone....

As said my over-riding concern was the realisation of vulnerability somewhere where I had never considered a problem could occur.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

Jontrev
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Joined: 30 Sep 2017, 12:37pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Jontrev » 12 Feb 2018, 10:49am

Did you have any food you could have given the dog, or just to it to "Go Home"

Tangled Metal
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2018, 1:13pm

Was the dog walker yelling that too you or the dog? My guess he was calling on the female dog to stop. Small consolation to you as you were quite rightly terrified, but it could easily have been a short moment of distraction that allowed the dog to get away from the walker.

I'm not justifying lack of control just saying everybody makes mistakes. I now have a dog, it's too young to go out right now, but my intention is to train it as far and as well as I can. Despite this my first reaction to a cyclist would always be to hold the dog keeping my body between the cyclist and the dog. However mixed use paths does include dog walkers and its good to allow dogs freedom to run but hot have to have the awareness of what's around you to do that IMHO.

One other point, if that dog owner reported themselves then it seems to me they are responsible dog owners that just got distracted. Who knows what was on their phone call that caused the distraction, but a mistake like that will always happen with humans. The worse cases are when there's known and accepted risks. Trained guard dogs that can escape are a risk that should not happen. IMHO there's a difference between distraction and ignored risk.

Debs
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 12 Feb 2018, 1:45pm

eileithyia wrote:As said my over-riding concern was the realisation of vulnerability somewhere where I had never considered a problem could occur.


Yes, it comes as a a shock when out somewhere local and familiar that should be a safe place to walk or cycle but you suddenly get surprised by a potentially dangerous dog in hot pursuit.

It would seem that many dogs find cyclists an irresistible prey to give chase after, albeit with differing reasons and motives so the outcome will depend upon the charactor and nature of the dog [and person responsible for it]. But in both our cases; no bodily injuries involved - except the fright, and shock, the problem is not so much the dog itself but a dog handler problem.

The Guard Dogs Act 1975 makes interesting reading, i expect the dog handler for the premises that i passed on Friday has committed misdemeanours enough for PC Plod to issue a fine, but all i can do is give my formal statement into the local police. There were no witnesses and don't think there are any security cameras either, so i'm expecting the police will visit the depot soon to issue a caution [at least] and check their Guard Dog facility credentials are lawful.

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foxyrider
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby foxyrider » 12 Feb 2018, 2:47pm

There are a few things to be aware of with regards to dogs and bikes. The first thing is that if it's barking it can't bite you - simple thing and in the heat of an incident easily forgotten. The last time I had a dog attack was in Germany several years ago, two terrier type farm dogs approached me as I stopped to check my route at a junction. They clearly took a dislike to me and when I set off they gave chase - in silence. I came away with a grazed calf and oxygen debt, glad of a bit of downhill that allowed me to out distance the fiends.

The second thing is that stopping and confronting the dog does work - they are encouraged to chase by your whirling legs!

On several occasions i've defused an attack by barking back which seems to confuse them - maybe not an option when climbing!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

thirdcrank
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby thirdcrank » 12 Feb 2018, 3:10pm

Dog legislation is notoriously difficult to enforce, not least because if somebody is understandably frightened of a dog, they don't necessarily make a good witness, which is only aggravated if the owner is even more aggressive than their mutt. That's all complicated by the IMO bourgeois attitude of some people towards dogs.

The sub-editor at the Daily Telegraph used the headline here with no obvious intention of irony:-

Police referred to watchdog after man dies from 'dangerous' dog attack days after pet returned to owner for not being banned breed


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... ed-to-own/

By coincidence, the trial of the dog's owner is in progress at the moment and this from the local rag gives better detail than we sometimes get of evidence.

Note the extended timescales in a case which seems to have its roots in 2010 and is only now being heard.

https://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yo ... e-14278089
======================================================================
Edit to add

It's been on local news this evening that the jury has returned a guilty verdict and sentencing will be tomorrow 13 Feb 2018
Last edited by thirdcrank on 12 Feb 2018, 7:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

eileithyia
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby eileithyia » 12 Feb 2018, 3:49pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Was the dog walker yelling that too you or the dog? My guess he was calling on the female dog to stop. Small consolation to you as you were quite rightly terrified, but it could easily have been a short moment of distraction that allowed the dog to get away from the walker.

I'm not justifying lack of control just saying everybody makes mistakes. I now have a dog, it's too young to go out right now, but my intention is to train it as far and as well as I can. Despite this my first reaction to a cyclist would always be to hold the dog keeping my body between the cyclist and the dog. However mixed use paths does include dog walkers and its good to allow dogs freedom to run but hot have to have the awareness of what's around you to do that IMHO.

One other point, if that dog owner reported themselves then it seems to me they are responsible dog owners that just got distracted. Who knows what was on their phone call that caused the distraction, but a mistake like that will always happen with humans. The worse cases are when there's known and accepted risks. Trained guard dogs that can escape are a risk that should not happen. IMHO there's a difference between distraction and ignored risk.


The dog walker was calling it to myself... yes of course we can all be distracted, but this was clearly one of the guard dogs being walked, off the lead... it should not have been off a lead imho in such a place that could be frequented by all sorts of other people. But as said it was the sudden realisation of my vulnerability and the potential to use a dog to ring me to a halt for other reasons...
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

eileithyia
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby eileithyia » 12 Feb 2018, 3:54pm

Debs wrote:
eileithyia wrote:As said my over-riding concern was the realisation of vulnerability somewhere where I had never considered a problem could occur.


Yes, it comes as a a shock when out somewhere local and familiar that should be a safe place to walk or cycle but you suddenly get surprised by a potentially dangerous dog in hot pursuit.

It would seem that many dogs find cyclists an irresistible prey to give chase after, albeit with differing reasons and motives so the outcome will depend upon the charactor and nature of the dog [and person responsible for it]. But in both our cases; no bodily injuries involved - except the fright, and shock, the problem is not so much the dog itself but a dog handler problem.



My family were never sure of why I was so frightened of dogs growing up until my dad recalled taking me for a walk in my pushchair and a dog coming down a driveway barking at us... he said it had given him a fright... I don't recall the incident but it was probably what was the catalyst for my fear. It could so easily have been another dog walker with a toddler in a pushchair that could have received a similar fright, it is a diversion or a route that someone could easily have been taking after school drop off.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

pyruse
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Joined: 6 May 2011, 5:35pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pyruse » 12 Feb 2018, 3:59pm

Years ago, when I lived in the south of France, I was walking home one day from the supermarket to the flat where I lived, and two large alsatians ran out from a house barking and growling. No way I could outrun them, so instead I turned towards them, went into a crouch, and advanced toward them while making a roaring noise. They both turned tail immediately; I've no doubt that had I run I would have been bitten.
It's not always possible to do this if the dog takes you by surprise, and it probably wouldn't work with trained guard dogs, but these were just dogs that someone had bought to protect their house (and then left the gate open).
You certainly won't be any worse off if you are aggressive rather than passive toward the dog(s).

Psamathe
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Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Psamathe » 12 Feb 2018, 4:08pm

pyruse wrote:Years ago, when I lived in the south of France, I was walking home one day from the supermarket to the flat where I lived, and two large alsatians ran out from a house barking and growling. No way I could outrun them, so instead I turned towards them, went into a crouch, and advanced toward them while making a roaring noise. They both turned tail immediately; I've no doubt that had I run I would have been bitten.
It's not always possible to do this if the dog takes you by surprise, and it probably wouldn't work with trained guard dogs, but these were just dogs that someone had bought to protect their house (and then left the gate open)......

I don't know about the South of France but in the region I lived there was a lot of "Defence" training done as a recreational sport (where somebody dressed-up in all the padded gear and a stick and somebody else set their Alsatian/doberman/big dog on them. It was organised in clubs, etc. When I lived in France I was bitten several times (drawing blood) including once at a dog training club (I used todo agility and flyball with my own dogs). I think the culture and expectations relating to dogs is very different in France from what we have evolved to in the UK.

Ian