Alsatian dog attack

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 7595
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2018, 4:25pm

Depends on why the dog is being aggressive. A fear response in a dog is quite scary if it's a big one. I had that with an alsatian once. Seems a nearly 2m tall bloke scares the hell out of some alsatian dogs.

Eli - that's really bad. I only asked because using daft bitch to a human is offensive but ppl don't see it as they for dogs so I thought the handler meant the dog. If I was female and got called daft bitch while being chased by a dog I'd sprint off (but a part of me would like to remonstrate quite vehemently over his use of words).

BTW all those who give examples of when they turned aggressive dogs back by confronting them are giving nice anecdotes but tbh I'm not sure they're helpful. If you're passing an aggressive dog at speed you have split second to decide whether to sprint off or stop and confront. The latter option will need to give you time to stop and get off your bike before the dog reaches you. Not sure that is possible.

BTW I must be very lucky because I've never been chased by dogs except as a kid when there was a known problem dog down the street. Gate open it would chase passers-by. Gate closed it would just bark even though it could escape. We have all been bitten on our bikes but knew a swift kick worked well. Plus it was a small dog too. A well timed kick could knock it flying.

Cyril Haearn
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Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Cyril Haearn » 12 Feb 2018, 5:10pm

Horses may think bents are hunting animals (low and fast)
Dogs may think UpWrongs are prey animals (high and fast)
I think bullies are cowards and "most" dogs would back off when confronted and barked at, they are confused by shining whirring machines
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Feb 2018, 5:30pm

Tangled Metal wrote:BTW I must be very lucky because I've never been chased by dogs except as a kid when there was a known problem dog down the street. Gate open it would chase passers-by. Gate closed it would just bark even though it could escape. We have all been bitten on our bikes but knew a swift kick worked well. Plus it was a small dog too. A well timed kick could knock it flying.

I haven't. I've had an incident in another context, but there have been enough biting dog stories to last the OP a fair while, and I'll not add to them.

Debs
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Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 12 Feb 2018, 7:56pm

foxyrider wrote:
...stopping and confronting the dog does work - they are encouraged to chase by your whirling legs!


It depends upon circumstances, the dog on my case was right beside me within 2 seconds of running though the open gate. I knew it was obviously a guard dog with a motive to protect it's territory, and in that circumstance i had on Friday, continuing riding on turned out to be the right thing to do, and who knows :?: stopping to confront this particular German Shepard at point-blank range may only have achieved the drama of getting my throat ripped out.

<>

Today i plucked up the courage to ride past there again, this time there was no dog visible [or audible] the gates were again wide open, i could see half a dozen cars parked up just inside the depot courtyard, but fortunately no dog, all was quiet.
I also noticed a 'Guard Dogs' sign fastened to a side gate on the minor road which is at least one law they are not infringing within the Guard Dogs Act 1975...

I think it maybe best to avoid this part of my ride for a while, at least until after i've spoken to someone at Wednesday's appointment at the local police station, and forwarded my statement to them.
I think this will simply end with a police fact-finding visit to the depot, and with a caution to the dog handler.

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby thirdcrank » 12 Feb 2018, 8:34pm

Debs wrote: ... I also noticed a 'Guard Dogs' sign fastened to a side gate on the minor road which is at least one law they are not infringing within the Guard Dogs Act 1975...


Depends how you look at it. If the explanation is on the lines of "No guard dogs, here boss..." it's evidence of the contrary, supporting your account.

... I think this will simply end with a police fact-finding visit to the depot, and with a caution to the dog handler.


One of my regular themes with reporting stuff is to be clear what you hope to see as the outcome. If you are reluctant to attend court to give evidence if necessary, that's not decisive, but it's pretty much the end of any real police action. IMO it's not on officially warning somebody about something you cannot prove, not least because they may call your bluff. OTOH, I'm not saying that being willing to give evidence guarantees a prosecution.

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2018, 9:21pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:BTW I must be very lucky because I've never been chased by dogs except as a kid when there was a known problem dog down the street. Gate open it would chase passers-by. Gate closed it would just bark even though it could escape. We have all been bitten on our bikes but knew a swift kick worked well. Plus it was a small dog too. A well timed kick could knock it flying.

I haven't. I've had an incident in another context, but there have been enough biting dog stories to last the OP a fair while, and I'll not add to them.

I was meaning the kids down our street at that time not everyone who ever read that sentence. Sorry for being unclear.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Feb 2018, 9:26pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:BTW I must be very lucky because I've never been chased by dogs except as a kid when there was a known problem dog down the street. Gate open it would chase passers-by. Gate closed it would just bark even though it could escape. We have all been bitten on our bikes but knew a swift kick worked well. Plus it was a small dog too. A well timed kick could knock it flying.

I haven't. I've had an incident in another context, but there have been enough biting dog stories to last the OP a fair while, and I'll not add to them.

I was meaning the kids down our street at that time not everyone who ever read that sentence. Sorry for being unclear.

Ah, am clear! On this occasion I wasn't being deliberately obtuse for comedic effect (much deprecated by some - well one :wink: )

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Feb 2018, 3:49pm

I see that the defendant in the dangerous dog prosecution I wrote about higher up has been sentenced to ten years imprisonment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-43044825

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 16 Feb 2018, 8:00pm

On Wednesday afternoon i attended the local police station to hand in my formal statement that explained what happened and the where and when, and that i am not looking to make a claim, or private prosecution, and would like to leave the matter with the police to decide, however i included a request for a local police Dog Legislation Officer [ DLO ] to visit the depot the check things out there.
The policeman i spoke with at the station confirmed that they really do have a DLO and he will visit the depot.

<>

Today i had a phone call from the police station to conclude that the visit had gone ahead, and the following information was passed to me:

The Alsatian dog is not a guard dog, it is a pet.

The owner works there and allows his dog to run loose in a fenced off section of the premises perimeter -
however he's just realised it has a little hole in it near the main gate - so he will fix that so the dog can't get out!
The "dog owner" sends his apologies.

This is not a good conclusion IMO, it's obviously a guard dog, and the owner doesn't have a licence for it which is an infringement of the Guard Dogs Act 1975, and again by allowing the dog to run loose in the premises unsupervised, and again onto a public highway, and to harass a passerby cyclist.

However he evades all the infringements completely by simply saying the guard dog is a pet, and not a guard dog! :twisted:

photo below of the side-gate [not the main front gate]
Image

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Feb 2018, 8:22pm

But there is a sign saying Guard Dogs? Will the owner be removing it is there isn't a guard dog, one wonders?

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pwa » 17 Feb 2018, 7:36am

Turn up at night and see if the "pet" is there, patrolling as pets obviously don't.

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Psamathe » 17 Feb 2018, 9:50am

Bonefishblues wrote:But there is a sign saying Guard Dogs? Will the owner be removing it is there isn't a guard dog, one wonders?

There are many signs around the place intended to discourage rather than state that something is present e.g. should Highways Authorities go round removing all the little speed camera signs on our roads because for 99.9% of them there are no speed cameras.

Also, having a premises guarded by guard dogs does not stop you also having a pet.

Ian

Cyril Haearn
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Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Feb 2018, 9:53am

Psamathe wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:But there is a sign saying Guard Dogs? Will the owner be removing it is there isn't a guard dog, one wonders?

There are many signs around the place intended to discourage rather than state that something is present e.g. should Highways Authorities go round removing all the little speed camera signs on our roads because for 99.9% of them there are no speed cameras.

Also, having a premises guarded by guard dogs does not stop you also having a pet.

Ian

Maybe it is a pet AND a guard dog
If you think he is lying you should insist that the DLO investigates
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Feb 2018, 10:16am

Psamathe wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:But there is a sign saying Guard Dogs? Will the owner be removing it is there isn't a guard dog, one wonders?

There are many signs around the place intended to discourage rather than state that something is present e.g. should Highways Authorities go round removing all the little speed camera signs on our roads because for 99.9% of them there are no speed cameras.

Also, having a premises guarded by guard dogs does not stop you also having a pet.

Ian

I'd actually thought about that :wink:

Does rather put the onus (or should do) on the owner to demonstrate that it's Cuddles the family pet, as opposed to Tyson the attack dog - behaviour that one could argue it has already displayed, based on the account from the OP. One wonders if a suitably questioning attitude has indeed been adopted by the investigating officer?

That said, no harm was ultimately done, bar a scare, and if the compound is now made secure, then the source of danger has been removed (until that is someone enters the compound and Cuddles acts like any family pet would :? )

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Psamathe » 17 Feb 2018, 10:53am

Bonefishblues wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:But there is a sign saying Guard Dogs? Will the owner be removing it is there isn't a guard dog, one wonders?

There are many signs around the place intended to discourage rather than state that something is present e.g. should Highways Authorities go round removing all the little speed camera signs on our roads because for 99.9% of them there are no speed cameras.

Also, having a premises guarded by guard dogs does not stop you also having a pet.

Ian

I'd actually thought about that :wink:

Does rather put the onus (or should do) on the owner to demonstrate that it's Cuddles the family pet, as opposed to Tyson the attack dog - behaviour that one could argue it has already displayed, based on the account from the OP. One wonders if a suitably questioning attitude has indeed been adopted by the investigating officer?
......

Many dogs will chase if allowed out not under control. I've been chased plenty of times by an Alsatian at one particular farm. That it chased me does not make it a Guard dog. From what I've read in this thread, it sounded like the dog was not trying to bite. Accusing a dog of being a Guard dog just because there is a sign where the owner works is just an accusation.

My previous Border Collie would chase horses - never got the opportunity but in my large garden he'd always charge to the gate (a good way from the road) whenever he heard the hoofs on the road. So does that make him a Guard Dog" given his behaviour?

I would actually assume that if Police Officers visited the site then they would ask questions (it would only take them a few seconds). To assume they didn't means this becomes 1. Accusing a dog of being a Guard Dog because it did what many genuine pets would do and then 2. Accusing the Police of not investigating properly because they didn't give you the answer you wanted.

"...put the onus (or should do) on the owner to demonstrate that it's Cuddles the family pet" is in effect a "guilty until proven innocent".

The issue is that the dog was not under adequate control.

Ian