Alsatian dog attack

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 8705
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Feb 2018, 11:04am

You miss my points. Let me re-state nore clearly. Let's take a look at what happened:

The dog ran out (escaped?) from a fenced property. It is of a breed often used for guarding. The premises were marked clearly as containing guard dogs. I think it's pretty reasonable in those circumstances to expect the police ask some challenging questions, given it pursued a cyclist for some distance, and caused real danger, not by biting in this instance, but in the context of other road users whilst the OP tried to escape.

In those circumstances yes I would expect an investigating officer put an onus on the owner to demonstrate that the dog was as he claimed a family pet, not because I am saying the dog is guilty, but because of the evidence we have seen which might point strongly towards that being a reasonable assumption.

You will also note that I "wondered" whether a suitable questioning attitute had prevailed in the context of the above. I did not "Accuse" - that is very different, and misrepresents what I said.

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 17 Feb 2018, 2:00pm

It would seem the difference between a guard dog and a pet can be ambiguous, however, legally a guard dog is subject to the; Guard Dogs Act 1975 with a need for a licence, and to keep guard dogs safely contained from the public, and to supervise, and prevent them from being carelessly left out of control etc.
A pet dog doesn't need a licence, and a lesser and different set of laws on safety are observed.

In this case it looks very suspiciously like a case of the depot having a guard dog but not having the proper licence to permit having one, so when questioned by the police about a few infringements of the Guard Dogs Act 1975 the 'dog handler' simply says he is the owner, and the dog is his pet - which is a sidestep, and a bigger keep them out of court loop-hole than the hole in the fence.

However, the facts are that the police have my formal statement on record of what happened.
The local station really does have a DLO [ Dog Legislation Officer ] who has attended the depot, and seen the Guard Dogs public warning signs, and warned and briefed the depot 'dog handler'. I'm sure the event of having the police get involved, and attend his place of work, will scar his memory enough for future concern.

As far as i'm concerned, i've done all i'm going to do on the matter. [Which is more than most would]

Life's too short - now i'm back happily cycling around again with a smile back on my face, and looking forward to the springtime weather :D

Psamathe
Posts: 11962
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Psamathe » 17 Feb 2018, 2:07pm

Debs wrote:......
The local station really does have a DLO [ Dog Legislation Officer ] who has attended the depot, and seen the Guard Dogs public warning signs, and warned and briefed the depot 'dog handler'. I'm sure the event of having the police get involved, and attend his place of work, will scar his memory enough for future concern......

I would agree. Plus, even the most irresponsible uncaring sociopath dog owner does not really want their dogs running around on the road because it serves no purpose and you get the Police calling round, cause accidents->more Police & vet bills, etc.

And the visit from the Police you initiated will have reminded the dog owner of the potential grief they face and that they are already one step "down that path.

Ian

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Feb 2018, 3:04pm

Not sure that a chat with the DLO will make a lasting difference, the therapy chats with drivers do not achieve much

Will you (can you) avoid going past the scene of the "incident"?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 17 Feb 2018, 6:22pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Not sure that a chat with the DLO will make a lasting difference, the therapy chats with drivers do not achieve much


If the depot dog causes trouble again but with another passerby then it's up to that person to do what i did and complain to the police.

Cyril Haearn wrote:Will you (can you) avoid going past the scene of the "incident"?


I probably won't ride around that way very often, i can easily avoid it, and it's not actually the guard dog experience that concerns me.
Over the winter months i've been exploring various roads for cycle routes local to home that include rural B roads, and minor unclassified roads some of which are single track [less than 4m wide].
The objective is map out a bicycle ride course that avoids A roads, and traffic-busy B roads.
The depot is situated in a very rural location on a corner between a nice sleepy minor road which ends at a B road. Although the B road is not busy; i would estimate only a few vehicles per minute in each direction, but one problem is the B road is fairly straight so what little traffic it does get seems very fast with often exceeding the 60mph speed limit. For a cyclist at a meter from the road edge it's rather too bumpy and pot holed. The B road is also not wide enough for two opposing vehicles to pass at any given point where a cyclist is riding.
So this B road isn't particularly a nice road for cycling on anyway.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8705
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Feb 2018, 6:35pm

I would also take the additional step of calling the local Dog Warden and reporting a dangerously out of control dog. IME liaison between police and wardens isn't always good.

Postboxer
Posts: 1732
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Postboxer » 18 Feb 2018, 1:16pm

In my opinion, a dog on premises marked with 'guard dogs' signs, is a guard dog, especially if there are no other dogs on site. The sign is labelling it as such.

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pete75 » 18 Feb 2018, 1:31pm

This whole think sounds a big waste of Police time - a bit like folk who go to A&E with a sore throat. From teh OP's description this wasn't a dog attack, the animal merely barked at her. It had no intention of attacking - the description says only inches away so had it wished to attack it would have done.
This whole thread seems like an over reaction to a relatively trivial incident.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Cyril Haearn » 18 Feb 2018, 1:34pm

pete75 wrote:This whole think sounds a big waste of Police time - a bit like folk who go to A&E with a sore throat. From teh OP's description this wasn't a dog attack, the animal merely barked at her. It had no intention of attacking - the description says only inches away so had it wished to attack it would have done.
This whole thread seems like an over reaction to a relatively trivial incident.

-1, I disagree
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 18 Feb 2018, 1:58pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pete75 wrote:This whole think sounds a big waste of Police time - a bit like folk who go to A&E with a sore throat. From teh OP's description this wasn't a dog attack, the animal merely barked at her. It had no intention of attacking - the description says only inches away so had it wished to attack it would have done.
This whole thread seems like an over reaction to a relatively trivial incident.

-1, I disagree


-2, me too! :D

The policeman i spoke with at the station explained that if someone's dog 'threatens' you with risk of biting and injure in a public place then a law has actually been broken, plus owner/dog handler not present at time makes the violation more serious. This is regardless to if it's a guard dog or pet.

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pete75 » 18 Feb 2018, 2:13pm

Debs wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
pete75 wrote:This whole think sounds a big waste of Police time - a bit like folk who go to A&E with a sore throat. From teh OP's description this wasn't a dog attack, the animal merely barked at her. It had no intention of attacking - the description says only inches away so had it wished to attack it would have done.
This whole thread seems like an over reaction to a relatively trivial incident.

-1, I disagree


-2, me too! :D

The policeman i spoke with at the station explained that if someone's dog 'threatens' you with risk of biting and injure in a public place then a law has actually been broken, plus owner/dog handler not present at time makes the violation more serious. This is regardless to if it's a guard dog or pet.


By your own admission all it did was bark at you.

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 18 Feb 2018, 2:46pm

pete75 wrote:
By your own admission all it did was bark at you.


That is not so, i explained the dog constantly threatened me by barking aggressively by my side [on a public highway] for around 200 meters.
I rode in fear of getting bitten at any time during the attack, and explained the dog made my ride awkward with wobbling and swerving on a 60mph national limit road with the danger of passing traffic.

What part of 'aggressive guard dog illegally loose on public highway threatening passerby cyclist' don't you understand? :roll:

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby pete75 » 18 Feb 2018, 3:11pm

Debs wrote:
pete75 wrote:
By your own admission all it did was bark at you.


That is not so, i explained the dog constantly threatened me by barking aggressively by my side [on a public highway] for around 200 meters.
I rode in fear of getting bitten at any time during the attack, and explained the dog made my ride awkward with wobbling and swerving on a 60mph national limit road with the danger of passing traffic.

What part of 'aggressive guard dog illegally loose on public highway threatening passerby cyclist' don't you understand? :roll:


I don't think it worth making all the fuss you have over such a minor incident which may or may not have been illegal. No harm was done so why turn it into such a big deal.

Debs
Posts: 850
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Debs » 18 Feb 2018, 3:25pm

pete75 wrote:
Debs wrote:
pete75 wrote:
By your own admission all it did was bark at you.


That is not so, i explained the dog constantly threatened me by barking aggressively by my side [on a public highway] for around 200 meters.
I rode in fear of getting bitten at any time during the attack, and explained the dog made my ride awkward with wobbling and swerving on a 60mph national limit road with the danger of passing traffic.

What part of 'aggressive guard dog illegally loose on public highway threatening passerby cyclist' don't you understand? :roll:


I don't think it worth making all the fuss you have over such a minor incident which may or may not have been illegal. No harm was done so why turn it into such a big deal.


No big fuss here, just reported it as it happened.
It was illegal. [Fact]
Some harm was done because i suffered symptoms of shock after the guard dog attacked me.
I'm not making a big deal, i appropriately informed the police and left it to them to sort out.
The police agreed it was illegal, and thanked me for taking the time to write a statement.

Why are you so obtusely making big a fuss about it being trivial and not illegal?

Ellieb
Posts: 898
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 7:06pm

Re: Alsatian dog attack

Postby Ellieb » 18 Feb 2018, 3:25pm

I don't think it worth making all the fuss you have over such a minor incident which may or may not have been illegal. No harm was done so why turn it into such a big deal.

Because it could have harmed her or caused an accident.
Beacuse it was a frightening and unpleasant experience and the owners of the dog are beaking the law
Because the next person to cycle by might not be so lucky.