Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2162
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby TrevA » 6 Jul 2018, 8:31pm

I have to say that I have a lot of sympathy for the residents. I don't think closed road sportives are viable in this country, certainly not in the densely populated south east - perhaps in the wilds of Yorkshire, Wales, the borders or parts of Scotland.

We had a closed road triathlon that closed all the main roads to the east of Nottingham, a few years ago. This inconvenienced loads of people and, as cyclists, we bore the brunt of people's anger, even though the event was nothing to do with us. The triathlon still runs but not on closed roads, and everyone rubs along fine. It causes a bit of traffic build up, but far less disruption than closing the roads.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13738
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby gaz » 6 Jul 2018, 8:48pm

VileTo wrote:Instead I am extremely unhappy and many residents are spitting with anger at ALL cyclists.

All cyclists? The one's who live in the local community and ride their bikes to work, to the station, to the shops, cafes, pubs? The children riding their bikes to schools or around the park?
mjr wrote:It ain't the riders' fault if the county council isn't doing what residents want - don't take it out on them, please.

slowster
Posts: 976
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby slowster » 6 Jul 2018, 9:24pm

mjr wrote:The residents have had a choice and they elected county councillors who agreed to this

Quite. Even if the county councillors were not directly involved, it is they who oversee and approve strategy and targets for council officers.

Perhaps those West Sussex residents who are complaining about the potential impact of this event should reflect on the fact that their entirely Conservative run county council is working with a business led by a Tory grandee, Seb Coe, who has done very well for himself since the end of his athletics career, including by turning a blind eye worthy of Nelson to rampant corruption in the IAAF leadership.

I am guessing, but it would not surprise me if the political direction and budget allocation at WSCC by its political masters means that the staff are simply not in a position (lack of resources and skills) to take a more leading role in organising and managing such a major event themselves, whether cycling or otherwise. Consequently, the only way they can hope to fulfil the requirements and expectations on them for major sporting, leisure and tourism events, is to rely on outside organisations. Those organisations include the BHF charity, which has built up the London to Brighton ride over many years and probably created a lot of goodwill. Unfortunately, they also include businesses like CSM, which looks like it is focused on the quick buck, possibly because there is a high risk that it will annoy so many residents that it will not get permission to repeat events annually.

[Post edited to remove insults.....please discus civilly or not at all].


VileTo wrote:My local pub in Partridge Green have a wedding reception that is no longer viable. Other rural pubs have their busiest days on Sunday, being inaccessible by car means significant loss of revenue for a business that is marginal at the best of times.

Which is why I said upthread that parish councillors and others need to identify and assess the likely impact of the event on local residents and businesses, including the financial impact. Collating that information will help in discussions with the organisers and the county council about whether the event goes ahead as planned, about alterations to the route or closures, and possibly even about whether the event goes ahead at all. The experience of similar businesses on the Velo Birmingham route should help to quantify the likely financial impact.

ianrobo
Posts: 506
Joined: 12 Jan 2017, 9:52pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby ianrobo » 7 Jul 2018, 1:23pm

mjr wrote:
Lorrimer12 wrote:To Ianrobo, the riders have made a choice to participate paid to take part and there are only 15000 of them. The residents have not had a choice and there are over 250000 of them.

The residents have had a choice and they elected county councillors who agreed to this and should be specifying route crossings and their procedures, taped-off or barriered footways and so on. It ain't the riders' fault if the county council isn't doing what residents want - don't take it out on them, please.


The London marathon impacts millions and no complaints ... this is pure Nimbyism and a few loud empty vessels ...

it is one event in one day of a year and residents have had loads of notice to sort out any urgent issues, work etc.

Are we supposed to have no events that inconvenience people then ? about those that live around a football ground and esp those grounds that have moved into people's area ?

for the vast majority of people the roads will be open after midday

Lorrimer12
Posts: 21
Joined: 24 Jun 2018, 3:51pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Lorrimer12 » 8 Jul 2018, 3:52pm

Entering the London marathon costs £39 and anyone can apply to enter. Please don’t make this comparison. Professionals, amateurs, disabled, and generally unfit can gain a place on city streets which are easily navigated around, brings millions of pounds for charities and organisers use costs for admin. Vélo South will take over a 1.1 million and donate nothing. Those residents who know about the road closures are angry but this will be nothing compared to how those who haven’t been told. I am an embrace everyone but the attitude has definitely changed toward cyclists this weekend (out on my bike). I am not surprised. Vélo South May still not take place as it has not been given the final go ahead. Huge protests against.

ianrobo
Posts: 506
Joined: 12 Jan 2017, 9:52pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby ianrobo » 8 Jul 2018, 6:32pm

yep from Nimby's like you. Just came back from Velothon and a great day, all the towns out enjoying the sun, no incidents after the first year ....

but heck drive in your metal box everywhere and pretend that is a good quality of life.

User avatar
RickH
Posts: 4529
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby RickH » 8 Jul 2018, 6:52pm

There's so much that could be done by communities if it was treated as an opportunity rather than a problem.

You probably couldn't get the scale of the Tour de Yorkshire but even a fraction of the visitors could boost local village economies - Velo South B&B weekend deals, family events to encourage folk to stay for the whole weekend and bring partners & children, etc, etc. Get people to come & spend money in the area rather than just drive in, do the ride & drive home again (or, if they can manage to get it cancelled, not even come at all)!

pwa
Posts: 10419
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby pwa » 8 Jul 2018, 7:08pm

I'm not sure how that would work in my village (which isn't affected by such events) because the only possible beneficiaries would be the two pubs and the small shop. The pubs are already busy on Sundays and simply don't have much more room for extra trade, and the shop is tiny but I suppose might make a few extra quid. For one person. But mostly any event passing through would do just that, pass through, with little financial benefit. The big bucks would be in the start/finish town, not along the route.

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2162
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby TrevA » 8 Jul 2018, 7:46pm

ianrobo wrote:
mjr wrote:
Lorrimer12 wrote:To Ianrobo, the riders have made a choice to participate paid to take part and there are only 15000 of them. The residents have not had a choice and there are over 250000 of them.

The residents have had a choice and they elected county councillors who agreed to this and should be specifying route crossings and their procedures, taped-off or barriered footways and so on. It ain't the riders' fault if the county council isn't doing what residents want - don't take it out on them, please.


The London marathon impacts millions and no complaints ... this is pure Nimbyism and a few loud empty vessels ...

it is one event in one day of a year and residents have had loads of notice to sort out any urgent issues, work etc.

Are we supposed to have no events that inconvenience people then ? about those that live around a football ground and esp those grounds that have moved into people's area ?

for the vast majority of people the roads will be open after midday


The London Marathon takes place in central London, which has a highly efficient transport system that doesn't involve cars, so people can still get around easily whilst the marathon is on. I'll wager that rural Sussex has no alternative transport system and relies mostly on cars to get people around.

A football match may slow down your journey, but won't stop it altogether.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

Ellieb
Posts: 751
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 7:06pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Ellieb » 8 Jul 2018, 7:56pm

So for one morning a year a small number of people can't get out in their cars? This is such a Uk attitude. Man the barricades!!

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4539
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby foxyrider » 8 Jul 2018, 8:11pm

Ellieb wrote:So for one morning a year a small number of people can't get out in their cars? This is such a Uk attitude. Man the barricades!!


+1

- tell you what, you can all come up here instead where visitors are embraced not bemoaned. Pretty sure I live in a different country - oh I do, the Great bit of Britain as opposed to the miserable country known as the 'sarf'.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

User avatar
squeaker
Posts: 3553
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 11:43pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby squeaker » 8 Jul 2018, 8:25pm

At least those in Horsham district now know about the "cycle road race" (see attached from the HDC free mag distributed to all households).
I was amused by the terms and conditions on the velosouth website, which include "forbidden.....any unconventional handlebars, including triathlon bars, aero bars, clip-ons, prayer bars, Spinaci bars and cow bars" etc etc (including recumbents and trikes). Dunno why they didn't just specify UCI legal road bikes and be done with it :lol:
Image Attachments
CycleRace.jpg
"42"

matt_twam_asi
Posts: 281
Joined: 29 Apr 2008, 10:56am
Location: West Sussex

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby matt_twam_asi » 8 Jul 2018, 11:35pm

RickH wrote:There's so much that could be done by communities if it was treated as an opportunity rather than a problem.


Part of treating this event as an opportunity would be on the organisers to publicise it and it's advantages well in advance to the people of West Sussex. I can't speak for other areas but as squeaker mentioned most people in Horsham will have found out about it in the past fortnight, if at all. As a comparison, the route and road closures of the (arguably less disruptive) Olympic road race were published to residents a good 6 months in advance and repeated closer to the event.

I'm honestly not against Velo South per se, even though it bisects the north and south sections of the Downs Link (why? For the love of Pete why inhibit people from using the one long distance off road cycle route in the area on that day?), but it does feel like communication has been an afterthought. The organisers may soon learn the sharp end of the phrase "We wunt be druv".

pwa
Posts: 10419
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby pwa » 9 Jul 2018, 6:48am

The Cardiff event yesterday claimed "significantly" reduced road closures compared to last year, so it looks like they are taking on board criticism and doing something about it. Watching BBC footage of the event, presumably at an early start, spectators were there in their ones and twos, so for most folk not involved with the event it was not important. I went out for a nine mile walk in countryside just outside Cardiff and I had no idea that event was on. My next door neighbour is a keen cyclist and was out cycling around the Black Mountains (Hay, Abergavenny, etc) staying clear of this big event.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14001
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby mjr » 9 Jul 2018, 7:52am

pwa wrote:Watching BBC footage of the event, presumably at an early start, spectators were there in their ones and twos, so for most folk not involved with the event it was not important.

The finishes usually have more spectators, so I don't think it's safe to conclude much from few getting up early on a Sunday to go to the start. Unlike pro races, sportive starts tend to be repetitve and not very interesting... even if you're cheering friends off as I sometimes do, it's rather a test of patience and I think you'd go crackers hearing the 20th start wave briefing, so few watch the whole start.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.