Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

[Lorrimer12]

Fraternity, my English, brotherhood or family liking road cycling. No offence intended.

[mjr]

Fraternity, my English, brotherhood or family liking road cycling. No offence intended.

And you can tell there's no such thing by some of the arguments on here!

[ianrobo]

Maybe Velo South should do more to publicise it, but why would they if the council you elected are willing to agree to it? Given they've already moved from Birmingham, it seems likely that they may move to yet another area next year.

actually the Brum one is returning next year but on a different route as the Nimby's of worcestershire persuaded the council to block it.

For most it is a problem for all of 4-5 hours but there is some issue with those at the end of a route as obviously they are closed for far longer ...

However for one day, come on ... are humans so wedded to their cars they can not cope ?

[slowster]

These are the road closure timings and the organisers' FAQs regarding the closures:

https://www.velosouth.com/the-route/road-closures/

https://www.velosouth.com/the-route/road-closure-faqs/

Whilst the intersections of the route with the A272 and A24 will doubtless be managed with marshalls/traffic lights - because there is no way that permission would be obtained to close those arterial routes - I think it's extremely unlikely that the same would apply to all the other side roads on the event: the resources required would be huge, and very possibly beyond the ability of such a commercial event to find and fund.

Compton is towards the end of the anti-clockwise route, and it and places like it will be subject to some of the longest road closures, i.e. from 9.15 to 18.30.

Because of the size of the event, the likely absence of alternative roads/routes in rural areas, and the lengthy duration of the closures, there will probably be a lot of people who will be hugely disrupted. I suspect that it could cause a lot of disruption for farmers and agricultural/rural businesses which do not close on Sundays and need to use those roads daily.

There will be other industries/sectors which could similarly be hugely impacted. For example, there are likely to be many elderly/infirm people living on roads and in villages to which access will be closed to vehicles, many of whom will be dependent on visits by daily carers (whether family members or paid by the local authority). For places like Compton it looks like it might be virtually impossible for such a service to be maintained by paid workers who have to work to very tight timescales to reach all their allotted clients in a shift. For an event in a large city, like the London Marathon, such workers can probably work around the disruption by driving along and parking in the many side streets which are not closed. For places like Compton, there are no alternative roads to access the village.

[mjr]

So what's blocking Long Lane out of Compton? Isn't it just a case of moving your car there the night before if you might need it, like when they close roads for major resurfacing?

[slowster]

So what's blocking Long Lane out of Compton? Isn't it just a case of moving your car there the night before if you might need it, like when they close roads for major resurfacing?

Have a look at Google Streetview:

- Long Lane is a long narrow singletrack road with only a couple of passing places.
- There is no space in Long Lane for the dozens of residents to park and turn their cars around.
- If residents could enter and exit the village using Long Lane, they would presumably still be unable to cross the course route, i.e. to travel westwards or come from that direction.
- Even if residents, carers and health care practitioners were able to park in Long Lane, they would then have to walk along the main road through Compton. For approximately 200m that narrow road has no pavement or verges and is tightly bounded by walls, and the road bends resulting in poor sightlines. I would not risk walking along that road if it were being used by massed groups of cyclists in a sportive event.

As for road closures for resurfacing, in my experience they usually close one side of the road at a time to allow traffic to continue to use the road. Where that is not possible, they usually only close a short stretch at a time, so that the rest of the surrounding roads can be used to detour around the works.

[Lorrimer12]

In Nyewood, Habin bridge, south Harting, their are homes that won’t be able to leave their own front yards. It’s not NIMBY to want to be able to leave your own home on a Sunday. Some still don’t know yet and if they are left to find out on the day there might be accidental incidents. The partridge season will have started so perhaps that lobby will have something to say we they hear about the road closures.

[Si]

actually the Brum one is returning next year but on a different route as the Nimby's of worcestershire persuaded the council to block it.

Don't start counting them thar chickens just yet

New route seems more urban where, I guess, it's easier to close roads, and also flatter, down through Solihull.

[mjr]

So what's blocking Long Lane out of Compton? Isn't it just a case of moving your car there the night before if you might need it, like when they close roads for major resurfacing?

Have a look at Google Streetview:

- Long Lane is a long narrow singletrack road with only a couple of passing places.
- There is no space in Long Lane for the dozens of residents to park and turn their cars around.

Have another look. There's a smaller lane near the bottom which would be an easy turning head for cars, there's space for a few cars in the wider section at the village end and I suspect some or all of neighbours, the showjumping centre or the holiday accommodation would let some villagers park a car each there. All is solvable if people wanted to actually solve it rather than be obstructive.

- If residents could enter and exit the village using Long Lane, they would presumably still be unable to cross the course route, i.e. to travel westwards or come from that direction.

It might be a bit of a detour but presumably there will be some crossing points same as every other time roads are closed for cycling events. Why presume there won't be? Even Ride London has ways to marshal cars out of driveways on Chelsea Embankment during the closure if there's an urgent need - I know, I've seen them do it.

- Even if residents, carers and health care practitioners were able to park in Long Lane, they would then have to walk along the main road through Compton. For approximately 200m that narrow road has no pavement or verges and is tightly bounded by walls, and the road bends resulting in poor sightlines. I would not risk walking along that road if it were being used by massed groups of cyclists in a sportive event.

So where do people walk the rest of the time? Cyclists in a sportive event would be a far smaller risk than massed groups of motorists in a commuting event.

As for road closures for resurfacing, in my experience they usually close one side of the road at a time to allow traffic to continue to use the road. Where that is not possible, they usually only close a short stretch at a time, so that the rest of the surrounding roads can be used to detour around the works.

That's not at all what happens in my experience (at times I've lived on the A10, A140 and pretty near the A5 and A43 - possibly others). Surrounding roads aren't used as diversionary routes for A roads because diversions have to be at least as high a classification as the closed route if at all possible. After all, we don't want loads of HGVs from an A road being sent up a narrow country lane instead of driving further on A roads and we don't want confusing signs saying big vehicles this way and small vehicles that way. So closures tend to be for miles at a time between junctions with other A roads - last week's was the A10 diverted between the junctions of the A134 and A47 and I think part of the A47 was also closed and diverted which may have resulted in some vehicles being diverted Downham Market - Swaffham - Fakenham - King's Lynn!

Depending what parts of the road are actually being worked on, some residents can access their homes behind works convoy vehicles, others have to be walked in and others have to park elsewhere and wait until the road reopens. Emergency services are normally kept informed of how to get as close as possible to each area.

Event closures can be handled in the same way. Usually the worse problem is when there's sudden ice and deep snow, but then it affects those who live on small roads more while A roads are the first cleared and people dismiss it as a cost of living on a small road. Why don't some people whose access depends on A roads just regard occasional closures as part of living there? It was ever thus for the strategic road network. Bleeding townies moving to the countryside ignorant of the realities of rural life?

[Bez]

Cyclists in a sportive event would be a far smaller risk than massed groups of motorists in a commuting event.

Whilst a bicycle has far less potency of harm than a car, context is everything. This is a closed roads sportive, which means (rightly or wrongly) people will be riding fast and close with the expectation of the road ahead being clear. This also isn't a "mass commuting" road, especially on a Sunday of course, and it's common to see people walking on the rural roads around here. It's a benign enough environment that this is actually the one rural road where I've so far ridden with my 8 year old. Personally, I would far sooner walk through Compton on a normal Sunday than when a load of highly competitive amateurs may be barrelling through with the assumption of not coming across anyone in their path.

[mjr]

Cyclists in a sportive event would be a far smaller risk than massed groups of motorists in a commuting event.

[...] This also isn't a "mass commuting" road, especially on a Sunday of course, and it's common to see people walking on the rural roads around here.[...]

Who are you quoting there? Never mind the mass - I presume a lot of the residents hold commuting events on it most weekdays.

Anyway, personally, I'd think it reasonable if the residents called for a footway to be taped/gappy-fenced off where there isn't one at the northern end of the village - but that's not what seems to be happening.

[slowster]

Have another look. There's a smaller lane near the bottom which would be an easy turning head for cars, there's space for a few cars in the wider section at the village end and I suspect some or all of neighbours, the showjumping centre or the holiday accommodation would let some villagers park a car each there. All is solvable if people wanted to actually solve it rather than be obstructive.

I imagine that it would be technically feasible for residents to use Long Lane if they were highly organised and agreed between themselves to park just a few cars in Long Lane and share them to shuttle themselves and neighbours to the other end of Long Lane, where more cars were parked. I suspect that the side lane you refer to is unadopted: it doesn't look in very good condition, if so the last thing the owners will want is for it to be on the receiving end of a lot more wear and tear than usual as a result of it being used as a turning space, even for just a day of heavy use.

If it were essential to organise something like that, e.g. because of the main road being completely shut for major repairs, I'm sure the villagers would work together to identify solutions. But it's not essential; this is being imposed on them because a large number of people have paid a profit making commercial organisation to stage a leisure event with road closures. The riders are effectively buying the road closure. I think that could set a precedent which could be used against cyclists, e.g. a motorcycle rally similarly buys exclusive use for a day of a 100 mile circuit in a heavily populated county, with the result that any cyclists would not be able to use those roads. I don't like the selfishness implicit in knowingly causing a lot of inconvenience to other people just so that those who have the money to pay for it can have the opportunity to ride closed roads.

Cyclists in a sportive event would be a far smaller risk than massed groups of motorists in a commuting event.

I don't know what you mean by massed groups of motorists in a commuting event, but I've seen enough bad and stupid cyclists on organised events that I would no longer enter any competitive or semi-competitive massed start rides. The recent thread about the triathletes and the horse shows just how stupid and dangerous a significant percentage of cyclists are. Individually when out riding solo they are less of a threat, but groups in semi-race conditions would make walking along that road far too dangerous for my liking. Indeed it would not surprise me if on the day marshals prohibited anyone from walking along that section of road.

[Lorrimer12]

This closed road sportive is 100 miles long and to the exclusion of all else. No other sport can take place on these roads that day; not riding, walking, running, no access to cricket or tennis in the area, no plans in on the swings or on fernhurst village green. Access to worship will be denied for some. A private, profit making company have bought the rights to the roads in West Sussex. The process they have used is open to anyone to use in this way. Is it fair? No. Is it inclusive? No. Is it popular? No. Will the private company be giving to charity? No. Will this cause traffic chaos on the day? Yes.

[Cyril Haearn]

Minus One

[Cyril Haearn]

Why, one may not even cycle from A to B