Is Evans' claim about e-bikes really true?

[PH]

I don't disagree with any of that. What prompted me to post this was what Evans said:

Electric bikes give you all ... the health benefits of life on two wheels.

Hills, no such thing

From what I know about cycling, IMV both cannot be true

Maybe they can't both be true at the same time but they certainly can on the same ride, with the same rider, on the same bike, even on the same hill.

just that part of the benefit of cycling is the need for effort on hills.

You seem to be stuck in this rut of defining others criteria. If someones criteria was to get to work without sweating, they wouldn't benefit from effort on the hills. You ought to be able to accept that people can decide for themselves what they want and it may be different from you.
I used to have a longish commute (36 miles a day), 80% of the time it was a joy, the other 20% was an unpleasant slog. If I were to find myself in the same position I wouldn't hesitate to get an e-bike, I wouldn't expect it to make much difference to the joy and a lot to the slog.

[kwackers]

I think you need a different stoker.

Nope.
The electronic stoker complains less and works harder.

[horizon]

You seem to be stuck in this rut of defining others criteria. If someones criteria was to get to work without sweating, they wouldn't benefit from effort on the hills. You ought to be able to accept that people can decide for themselves what they want and it may be different from you.

What people use their various forms of transport for is entirely up to them. I'm just interested in what other people have said about the health effects of cycling and whether e-bikes somewhat diminish that - fine, until someone claims that there is no difference. I think I'm being misunderstood a little: I feel Evans is saying that you can have your cake and eat it. I would say that that is a little untrue. You could say that it is a cruel deception perpetrated by a malicious and self-serving marketing department or it's stretching the truth a bit in order to encourage sales - I'm inclined towards the latter.

Why I feel it matters is that at the heart of it is something about health and given that that is a highly contentious subject, it's good to reflect on what people are saying, that's all.

[Roadster]

I think the claims are disingenuous. I ride a bike principally for exercise and the benefits to my fitness and health which result. For any given journey, a reduction of effort by means of electrical assistance would therefore be counter-productive. I could indeed ride a greater distance on an e-bike to make up the difference, but then that would not be the same journey as the one given.

[kwackers]

I'm just interested in what other people have said about the health effects of cycling and whether e-bikes somewhat diminish that - fine, until someone claims that there is no difference.

What do you call "health"?
Fitness? Of course less exercise means a drop in fitness, but it's not as much as you might think. Fitness isn't a linear function of effort and/or time. Diminishing returns apply.
But what about the unspoken issues of cycling? Prostrate damage, ligament and bio-mechanical damage? Reducing strain/effort and time in the saddle have benefits in these areas.

So what about the holistic whole?
It really depends on your starting point and your goal.

For some they offer more positives than negatives.

[Marcus Aurelius]

E bikes aren’t for me, at the moment. I do think they are a fantastic idea. They give people who won’t or can’t ride a traditional bike, the opportunity to do so. That can’t be a bad thing.

[Mistik-ka]

I think you need a different stoker.

Nope.
The electronic stoker complains less and works harder.

Mrs. M-k says your stoker definitely needs a different captain.

[PH]

I feel Evans is saying that you can have your cake and eat it.

The whole point is that you can choose if you want cake, how much and when.
Maybe if they marked the assistance control "Cake > No Cake" instead of "1 > 4" you'd get it

Can you have it all? Yes
Can you have it all at the same time? No
Can you define for someone else just what "all" means? No

[horizon]

What do you call "health"?

Wot you get from cycling. That's my point - is there a difference? There are lots of health benefits from e-bikes (starting not least with getting out in the fresh air and meeting friends); there are some downsides to cycling (as you point out). But there is (apparently) a health effect from exertion which you may get from an unpowered cycle and you may get less from an e-bike. Which is all fine until someone says that you can get all the same benefits with an e-bike: that's what I question. But please note that I question it - I really don't have all the answers.

[kwackers]

Which is all fine until someone says that you can get all the same benefits with an e-bike: that's what I question. But please note that I question it - I really don't have all the answers.

I fear we're into "how long is a piece of string" territory.
As I've said, it depends on what you want and where you currently are.

I don't want or need more fitness. But using the e-bike I definitely get more exercise and thus improve my fitness.
The same applies to anyone who wouldn't cycle if it were not for e-bikes.
Which leaves only those that are currently cycling and who use the e-bike for the same journeys to make life easier, for them there's a net loss but it's probably not that large.

However if you want to play the "all things being equal" then yes; e-bikes don't provide the same health benefits at an individual level.
But then what about the whole of society? In this case I think that e-bikes do provide a net health benefit although that is really just conjecture on my part.
My reasoning being that existing cyclists that switch won't lose much fitness whilst non-cyclists who buy one will gain a lot (diminishing returns being the prime reason).

But I seriously doubt there's a definitive answer.

[Cyril Haearn]

An upgrade to e-bike would be very bad for my financial health

[ANTONISH]

They've become very popular in NL amongst older cyclists. It keeps them going for longer (both km on the fietspad and years in the saddle) and for that demographic I'd say it's pretty fair comment. The sort of person who already cycles in the UK isn't generally doing it to make their life easy, so again they're typically not going to let an e-bike let their fitness go to ruin. For people who didn't cycle before it's a good thing to get them going.

[/quote]

The accident rate among older cyclists has increased steeply as they have adopted e-bikes.
I believe that e-bikes have outsold normal utility bikes in NL as well - I wonder if the general accident rate for cyclists will increase.
I don't know about the benefits but if it increases the ability of a cyclist to ride at normal speeds who otherwise would be unable to, I think it must be beneficial.

[hercule]

I inherited my late father's Kalkhoff and a few comments from experience...

It kept him out on the bike and active into his 80s - surely a good thing!

As the younger, fitter version I have found that
It is great fun to ride
On eco setting the crank drive motor pretty much eliminates the weight of the motor+battery+chunky frame and it’s much like riding my Giant commuter.
On sport mode you are going faster and it feels like you’ve got super power legs
On Power mode it’s like a moped and zooms up even 1:4 hills (I discovered I’d claimed a local Strava KoM segment without trying... I did promptly delete the ride!)
Without power it’s a heavy lump and I wouldn’t like to cover a big distance that way. The motor assist fades out above 15mph but it still rides pretty well at speed.

I don’t find it as engaging to ride as my other bikes but it is a pretty standard German hybrid apart from the motor. For fun I’m out on one of my other bikes. It’s advantage is that as a commuter machine headwinds pretty much disappear and you can arrive at your destination relatively sweat free. Which makes for more predictable journey times. I use it largely as a commuter/utility machine in lieu of the car. For that purpose it works very well. As a form of exercise, better than sitting in the driving seat but not the same as unassisted cycling.

[hemo]

Like for like a fit regular rider will not feel the benefit I feel and would probably lose muscle tone over a period of time.
An ebike with PAS (Peddle assist) can provide approx. 75% of the power input and even more if used in the top mode.
On a normal pedal bike I huff and puff with my asthma and get horribly sweaty as well as turning red as a beetroot. Benefits for me is I can go on longer rides often 50 - 100 miles and have assitance esp for the inclines and hills, esp the likes of Kidds Hill nr Grombridge or Ditchling Beacon etc, etc.
On a good ride out I can lose 3 or 4lbs in weight as confirmed by weighing myself before and after.