Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

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lvabd
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Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 12:16pm

Hi all!

I am planning to do the Mille Pennines audax, on my own (well with 2 pals), not as the official AUK event, say in June-July (in 4-5 months)

just wondering what kind of preparation people do for that sort of distance - 75 hours time limit and with that sort of elevation pattern (Hardknott+Wrynose+Rosedale)

I am used to 200+k, but I think I need to increase a bit my speed (so far around 19kph for 200-250k)

For example, would something like that be an ok approach?
- interval training 2-3 times/week, weekdays
- 150-250k ride/week on week end (or slow touring or intense MTB.. I don't want to make my other bikes feel neglected..)
- 300k in April
- 400k in May
- 800k in June (no later than 3 weeks before the 1000k), very hilly, say Applecross included
- easy 100k 1 week before the 1000k
Last edited by lvabd on 15 Mar 2018, 4:06pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m elevation : preparation?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 15 Mar 2018, 2:41pm

Hi,
You got that right...................22 feet per mile elevation?

But 200 miles a day..................
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

lvabd
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m elevation : preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 4:05pm

no no sorry, not elevation (pfioooo!) but total climb!

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/16-62/

thirdcrank
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2018, 4:56pm

lvabd wrote: ... I am used to 200+k, ...


This is posted standing to attention, cap in hand.

When we get the more usual post on the lines "I'm 20 stones, and haven't ridden a bike in years, I've signed up for a 100 mile charity ride next month ... etc" I hope we can refer them to you for some tips. 8)

All I would say is get the miles in and decide how to get your mind ready for this, especially telling that little voice in your ear saying "This is silly, let's go home" to shut up.

Good luck with this. :D

Grandad
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby Grandad » 15 Mar 2018, 6:18pm

Go to the yacf website and look through any of the threads that have accounts of rides of this length. These will give you an idea of what you might experience

thirdcrank
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2018, 7:34pm

lvabd wrote:... on my own (well with 2 pals) ...


I'm not clear whether these are regular riding companions of yours or not. If you do ride these events together regularly, look away now.

I would suggest that whatever preparation programme you eventually choose, do your training rides together as much as possible, because it's important - vital - that you are all compatible and each fully understands and subscribes to the common plan. A good group can make the miles fly by, both by sharing the work, especially when riding into wind, and by providing distraction and mutual encouragement. Agreement over breaks is an obvious example, because it's so much easier to lose time than to make it up. Training together also helps ensure everybody is putting in the preparation they say they are doing, rather than turning up hoping to wing it.

With apologies if you already knew this but didn't look away.

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NUKe
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby NUKe » 15 Mar 2018, 8:32pm

plan doesn't sound unreasonable.I wouldn't aim for more speed though 50 hours riding approx . that leaves 25 hours to eat sleep and drink assuming your doing it as audax.
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Dean
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby Dean » 15 Mar 2018, 8:37pm

I rode the event a couple of years ago. It's tough, but doable.

First, I'd take a good look at the route - if you're DIY-ing, you can just make up your own. Not a criticism of Andy Corless, but routes on audax events are limited by logistics such as where you can get a hall to start and finish, places where riders can get proof of passage, and routes suitable for a group of nutters who'll be riding in a window of up to 24 hours. I didn't like the start/finish, as it was bloody busy (but flat!), and there were a couple of bits of main road I'd edit out if I was DIY-ing, such as the A171 Moors Road over to Whitby on a sunny Sunday afternoon. That was a bit [inappropriate word removed], but not as [inappropriate word removed] as hacking along the A69 dual carriageway on Saturday afternoon had been (top tip for this bit - my tame Geordie pointed me at a bridge over the carriageway which the locals use, and which you can see here.

Anyway, the route changed last year, and it looks like it's going to change again this year. It's not set in stone,

Training - do hills. Lots of hills. Lots of steep hills. I was riding a lot when I rode (I rode the 1000 at the start of the month, a hilly 200 a week later, a 600 the week after that, then a week off, and a 200/400 at the end of the month, and on the week off I went up to Rosedale to support a mate who was Everesting Chimney Bank, and ended up riding the damn thing half a dozen times with him), and you do need to get used to riding when you're fatigued. FTR, I was riding hilly 200s in February and March, 300s and 400s by March, but I really was riding a lot that year. And it was a much milder winter than we've had - one 200 so far this year! I sometimes chucked in a midweek loop up a local hill, too.

Speed-wise, my moving average was 21.5 kph, but this isn't hugely relevant, cos I spent 26 hours off the bike (about 11-12 of them sleeping, the rest was eating, talking [inappropriate word removed], fettling other people's bikes, taking photos etc). Getting faster does mean you can finish more comfortably, and also means you'll have more time for sleep, but any time off the bike is going to be far more significant than thrashing yourself to maintain a given average. Get faster by all means, but more importantly, get used to not stopping. Eat on the go wherever possible, and when you do stop, make sure you do everything you need to do - order your food then go to the loo and top your bottles up, for example. Slower people than me got round, though generally with less sleep.

You don't say whether you've ridden or are planning to ride any audaxes, but this would be the best way to train yourself. A 600 is generally two days separated by a sleep stop, to get yourself used to riding fatigued. Andy Corless himself puts on a few hilly events (I'm organising a fairly hilly 300 from Newby Wiske at the end of April, check the AUK calendar for details), and there'll be something local to you, assuming you're in the UK.

Where are you planning to stop? I know AC planned to use Hawes hostel as the ride hub, but youth hostels are tricky, cos you'll likely only want to stop for 4-hours a night if you're going well, and they usually shut their doors at 10-11 o'clock. Good sleep in a proper bed is way better than a catnap in a bus shelter, though some people do get by on that. And hotel/hostel admin can suck your time away.

I wrote some stuff about food on the 2017 route on yacf, and you can also read the epic thread about the two versions of the ride AC's organised. Hope you find it useful.

I'd echo TC's comments about picking your ride companions carefully - I rode a Belgian 1000 with three mates a couple of years ago, and three of us rode together, but the fourth rode at her own pace, and we all rode together when circumstances allowed (basically, when it was flat enough that she wouldn't be killing herself to keep our pace). It was fine, cos we hadn't expected to ride together. With all those hills, unless you're really well-matched... well, it could get messy. Do try to communicate, and try not to get grumpy. It's not worth losing friends over a bike ride.

To summarise: ride lots of hills. Do some audaxes, up to 600 - I don't think you'll need to bother with an 800 unless you really fancy the route and just want to do it anyway. Take lots of photos. Have fun, or at least an approximation thereof.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m elevation : preparation?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 15 Mar 2018, 9:11pm

Hi,
lvabd wrote:no no sorry, not elevation (pfioooo!) but total climb!

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/16-62/

Sorry :oops: my minds all over the place.........climb yes.........208 miles a day.........done many of them?, 68 feet per mile.

Like marathons you only need to be able to run without stopping for six miles to do one.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

lvabd
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 9:14pm

thirdcrank wrote:
lvabd wrote: ... I am used to 200+k, ...


This is posted standing to attention, cap in hand.

When we get the more usual post on the lines "I'm 20 stones, and haven't ridden a bike in years, I've signed up for a 100 mile charity ride next month ... etc" I hope we can refer them to you for some tips. 8)

All I would say is get the miles in and decide how to get your mind ready for this, especially telling that little voice in your ear saying "This is silly, let's go home" to shut up.

Good luck with this. :D


ya totally bragging about being able to do 200k... at 19kph ... so much to brag about with that uh? especially on a forum full of people doing PBP or LEL on a regular basis...
So why did I mention it? because an obvious answer to "wanna do 1000k, advices?" would be "how often do you cycle and for how long?"

lvabd
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 9:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:
lvabd wrote:... on my own (well with 2 pals) ...


I'm not clear whether these are regular riding companions of yours or not. If you do ride these events together regularly, look away now.

I would suggest that whatever preparation programme you eventually choose, do your training rides together as much as possible, because it's important - vital - that you are all compatible and each fully understands and subscribes to the common plan. A good group can make the miles fly by, both by sharing the work, especially when riding into wind, and by providing distraction and mutual encouragement. Agreement over breaks is an obvious example, because it's so much easier to lose time than to make it up. Training together also helps ensure everybody is putting in the preparation they say they are doing, rather than turning up hoping to wing it.

With apologies if you already knew this but didn't look away.


That's a good point, thanks. didn't think much about it, but yes we start now doing medium distances together. they are a tad bit faster than me, but I feel that with proper training I can catch up. Thanks!

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horizon
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby horizon » 15 Mar 2018, 9:31pm

lvabd wrote:
ya totally bragging about being able to do 200k... at 19kph ... so much to brag about with that uh? especially on a forum full of people doing PBP or LEL on a regular basis...


Funnily enough just got back from PBP* and LEL* (horrible weather but still...).






* Past BP garage then Looe - East Looe and back - exhausted.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

lvabd
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 9:34pm

Dean wrote:I rode the event a couple of years ago. It's tough, but doable.
...
To summarise: ride lots of hills. Do some audaxes, up to 600 - I don't think you'll need to bother with an 800 unless you really fancy the route and just want to do it anyway. Take lots of photos. Have fun, or at least an approximation thereof.



amazing, thank you so much. will take me a few days to reflect on the many good advices.

Yes one of the reasons why I don't want to do the official audax for it is I kind of want to be able to slightly modify the route to avoid busy bits... but I don't live in the area (I live up north in scotland), so very very appreciated tips.
Another reason is that I am quite interested in the "romantic" idea of carrying my own bed (I do proper loaded touring too, but that's not the same indeed). But I am a total noob when it comes to sleeping during Audax. I will try that (got a bivy and a light sleeping bag...).

As you guessed, one of the main reasons why I want to increase my av speed a little bit is to save more time to sleep. Indeed this should come at almost no cost in terms of effort on the bike, or it deters the effect of said gain in sleep. So from what you said, I take "do increase your speed a bit if you can, don't tire yourself to gain speed". Roger that.

Also roger the advice about the hills. From what you wrote I have the feeling that this might be the biggest challenge. I did climb wrynose and hardknott, but all fresh with 50 or 60 k behind, so nothing in comparison. Scotland is not exactly short of hills, will do that.

again, thank you very much!

lvabd
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby lvabd » 15 Mar 2018, 9:36pm

horizon wrote:
lvabd wrote:
ya totally bragging about being able to do 200k... at 19kph ... so much to brag about with that uh? especially on a forum full of people doing PBP or LEL on a regular basis...


Funnily enough just got back from PBP* and LEL* (horrible weather but still...).






* Past BP garage then Looe - East Looe and back - exhausted.


Ah ah... with headwind sure that must have been tough! ;)

thirdcrank
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Re: Audax DIY 1000k, 13000m climb: preparation?

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2018, 9:54pm

lvabd wrote: ... ya totally bragging about being able to do 200k... at 19kph ... so much to brag about with that uh? especially on a forum full of people doing PBP or LEL on a regular basis...
So why did I mention it? because an obvious answer to "wanna do 1000k, advices?" would be "how often do you cycle and for how long?"


I'm sorry if it came across that I was being sarcastic, because that was not my intention. We do get a lot of people with zero experience asking for advice about ambitious rides, when the only practical advice is try a bit of cycling first to see if you enjoy it and then if you do, build up your experience. I'm genuinely diffident about advising somebody with your level of experience and I suspect others on here may feel the same.

It's a comprehensive post from Dean and every word is spot on. I'd particularly pay attention to what he says about hills. They are included in a lot of bike races to split the field and the steeper they are the more they expose differences in ability. That's not only climbing but in descending as well. I don't know how well you know different areas but I'd recommend Pateley Bridge as a good centre for a a lot of steep climbs in a small area. You can get a lot of varied climbing in without riding far between.

Once again, I'm really sorry if I came across as being in any way sarcastic: I'm full of admiration for anybody who can tackle this type of ride and cautious about offering advice.
==================================================================
Edited to insert a "not" before "my intention."
Last edited by thirdcrank on 16 Mar 2018, 6:47am, edited 1 time in total.