Cyril Haearn wrote:The *majority* break the law on every journey, ignore stop signs, priority, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance, unbroken lines &c &c Anyone agree?
And yet, even if true, there doesn't seem to be carnage and chaos. How can that be?
Cyril Haearn wrote:The *majority* break the law on every journey, ignore stop signs, priority, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance, unbroken lines &c &c Anyone agree?
And yet, even if true, there doesn't seem to be carnage and chaos. How can that be?
'Even if true'? Please take the time to observe traffic at a stop sign and report your findings! Then you will be armed with facts
There is chaos and carnage, thousands KSI, fewer K in recent years but still very many SI, permanently disabled, lots of jams on the Autobahn, saw one on the other side on my way to work, the AB was closed for 6 hours after an 'accident' at 04oo, many 'accidents' are caused by tiredness
The same in the UK, just listen to the radio after the news. Mind, I have not been in the UK for a few months, have things changed recently? [/quote] Vorpal wrote: Argue nicely please [/quote]
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
FWIW,I believe there are a growing element of drivers on UK roads who aren't fit and should not be driving,they display this on a regular basis and collect points on their licences to prove my point and use loophole lawyers to keep their licences,there are others who don't collect those points yet are equally as bad and dangerous,it's hard to know which have the points and which don't,but easy to spot the dangerous drivers. As an example,yesterday driving on a 40mph limit single carriageway road at jussttt atnor under under 40 mph with vehicles heading in the opposite direction and no room to overtake I had a Renault Traffic van driving no more than 4ft(1.2m)and I estimate less,from my rear bumper,I slowed down to 20mph and still he was less than 4ft from my rear bumper,so obiously not taking the hint,the road distance from him 'latching' onto me to where he turned off at a roundabout,was 3/4 of a mile,half of which was at the reduced speed. I've no idea what his intentions were or why he was driving so dangerously,but I do know that by slowing down to 20mph should he have rear ended me the impact would've caused less injury to me and Mrs R2 (who was in the car with me),and less damage to my vehicle. What I do know is that his driving was dangerous and that if I'd followed him onto the car park he was heading onto and confronted him about his dangerous driving he would,more than likely been less than willing to listen to my complaint,which isn't really surprising as most dangerous drivers are of the opinion that they're not driving dangerously.This is by no means an isolated incident,I see such bad and dangerous driving daily on UK roads But what's more disturbing is that if I'd sought to report him to the police very little if any action would've been taken by them,I know this from previous experience of reporting such drivers to GM police.
And so it goes,ineffective policing caused by government cut backs leading to a reduction of police numbers by 30%,as a result those with low moral conviction break the law more often and even worse still the ineffective and undermanned police forces operatate a reactive rather than proactive role and are forced to prioritise their enforcement of the rule of law to where all but the most serious of crimes go undetected and not investigated.This situation then becomes normal and as a direct consequence more people are KSI and more property is damaged and less crime is reported becaus the public know nothing will be done,which in turn lessens belief and reliance on the police in general,sad but true.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Cyril Haearn wrote:The *majority* break the law on every journey, ignore stop signs, priority, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance, unbroken lines &c &c Anyone agree?
Not sure what you mean about "unbroken lines". In the UK it is not breaking any law to cross unbroken lines if you are passing a very slow road user, like a cyclist going uphill, so long as you do all the checks and allow enough time, etc. I crossed double unbroken lines this morning to pass two cyclists giving them loads of room, having waited behind them until conditions were right for a safe, clean pass.
And I am far more worried by the thought of a driver on the edge of sleep than one who strays over the speed limit by 1mph. I don't see any benefit in dragging in every possible minor infringement when we are talking about something as obviously deadly as a driver losing consciousness at the wheel.
In New York crime was reduced by a policy of no tolerance where even 'minor' crimes were punished In Germany a single line along the middle of the road has the same meaning as double lines in the UK
As for my claim that most drivers break the law, just look at professional truck drivers on single carriageways, ever seen one not exceeding the 40 mph maximum? Any time the cops here check goods vehicles they find transgressions in nearly all cases
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cyril Haearn wrote:The *majority* break the law on every journey, ignore stop signs, priority, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance, unbroken lines &c &c Anyone agree?
And yet, even if true, there doesn't seem to be carnage and chaos. How can that be?
'Even if true'? Please take the time to observe traffic at a stop sign and report your findings! Then you will be armed with facts
There is chaos and carnage, thousands KSI, fewer K in recent years but still very many SI, permanently disabled, lots of jams on the Autobahn, saw one on the other side on my way to work, the AB was closed for 6 hours after an 'accident' at 04oo, many 'accidents' are caused by tiredness
The same in the UK, just listen to the radio after the news. Mind, I have not been in the UK for a few months, have things changed recently?
Vorpal wrote: Argue nicely please [/quote][/quote] I simply don't agree I'm afraid. It's demonstrably the case that there isn't carnage and chaos on our roads, despite Stop sign infractions, whose particular significance rather continues to rather nonpluss me, I confess.
Bonefishblues wrote:And yet, even if true, there doesn't seem to be carnage and chaos. How can that be?
'Even if true'? Please take the time to observe traffic at a stop sign and report your findings! Then you will be armed with facts
There is chaos and carnage, thousands KSI, fewer K in recent years but still very many SI, permanently disabled, lots of jams on the Autobahn, saw one on the other side on my way to work, the AB was closed for 6 hours after an 'accident' at 04oo, many 'accidents' are caused by tiredness
The same in the UK, just listen to the radio after the news. Mind, I have not been in the UK for a few months, have things changed recently?
Vorpal wrote: Argue nicely please
[/quote] I simply don't agree I'm afraid. It's demonstrably the case that there isn't carnage and chaos on our roads, despite Stop sign infractions, whose particular significance rather continues to rather nonpluss me, I confess.[/quote] STOP means stop, right?
The particular significance of stop signs.. I have the 'impression' that most drivers follow too close and go too fast &c but have no way to prove or measure to establish this By simple observation at a stop sign one can establish that almost all break the law
Why, you have even posted that you agree that stop signs should be obeyed. Please take a little time to observe traffic at a stop sign!
I am an optimist, my vision is that the cops wait by stop signs and give those who cannot read a b****y good talking to!
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Bonefishblues wrote:I simply don't agree I'm afraid. It's demonstrably the case that there isn't carnage and chaos on our roads...
Congestion, pollution, and death, then?
Yes there's congestion. Good news - reduces speeds, and there's the argument that congestion if unaddressed will mean road traffic would reach a point of stasis.
Yes there's pollution, but I'm much more optimistic than most about that, seemingly. Electric cars in particular, and their rapid development is encouraging IMHO. Given cars' frangibility, it wouldn't take very long for significant improvements - certainly much faster than industrial and other pollutants.
Yes there's death, but being realistic, not very many deaths in relative terms. Of course too many of all classes, but many many fewer than in very recent history. I'm sure we can reprise the arguments about road use, reasons etc, but fewer people are dying, especially when one looks at miles travelled.
Is it all unalloyed good news? Of course not, but I guess I'm rather more cup half full than some.
The particular significance of stop signs.. I have the 'impression' that most drivers follow too close and go too fast &c but have no way to prove or measure to establish this By simple observation at a stop sign one can establish that almost all break the law
Why, you have even posted that you agree that stop signs should be obeyed. Please take a little time to observe traffic at a stop sign!
I am an optimist, my vision is that the cops wait by stop signs and give those who cannot read a b****y good talking to!
You said you hadn't surveyed that. You said you had noticed it. That's as anecdotal as any other observation therefore.
Taking your observation at its word though, what is its significance? In your many observations of Stop signs could you share the number of accidents you have observed? Or is your point that all drivers are Lawbreakers? What is the purpose of that observation, except to repeatedly make that exact point? I can't see how it advances the debate, even if oft-repeated. That's why I asked.
I wonder why there isn't enforcement in a noticeably disciplined society (I'm assuming that you are referencing Germany)? Are there other offences that are causing greater harm?
Bonefishblues wrote:I wonder why there isn't enforcement in a noticeably disciplined society (I'm assuming that you are referencing Germany)? Are there other offences that are causing greater harm?
There was some enforcement three years ago, the police embarrassed themselves by catching hundreds of criminals and the paper reported 'the stop sign where no-one stops', hundreds of drivers had to pay a pocket-money fine A few months later the stop sign (protecting a cycle lane from traffic joining from a side-road) was quietly removed The cops here are just as bad as there: 'We do nothing and talk about it' could be their motto (after Erich Kaestner)
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
