Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

[Cyril Haearn]

Reports of a driver being jailed will not achieve much
The Brunstrom method might work, but some people found it distasteful
A picture of the severed head of a motorcyclist was used, there was a lot of criticism
But even shock methods would not work for long I fear

[pwa]

The only thing that will stop this completely is new technology, probably based on something that monitors your eyes as you drive. Until then we have to do what we can to avoid being behind the wheel while at serious risk of falling asleep. The driver in this case should have pulled over and taken a good nap at the first sign that he had a problem. He didn't, and that for me is the point at which an understandable misjudgement became a case of gross dereliction of duty. At that point he must have realised he was taking a risk but he kept going.

[thirdcrank]

... Do you, the police, the judiciary have a opinions about the suggest that those obeying the law should be rewarded?
Has it been tried?

In sentencing policy, there are various ways of encouraging an early guilty plea, "remorse" being on of the key words. I suppose the biggest reward for obeying the law is a reduced chance of being caught up in it. I've don't remember any formal reward system for rewarding good behaviour.
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PS

Virtue is its own reward, and brings with it the truest and highest pleasure; but if we cultivate it only for pleasure's sake, we are selfish, not religious, and will never gain the pleasure, because we can never have the virtue.

John Henry Newman

[Bonefishblues]

Have you considered sorting yourself out?

I'm assuming that you have some advice to offer? How do you avoid driving when tired?

Easy, don't get in a car and drive it.

If only life were so binary. Have you considered life might be rather more nuanced? I suspect not.

[Barks]

Of course life isn’t ‘binary’ but the underlying problem is that so many in society believe that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to to without any thought of others. So the idea that there is a decision that needs to be made is completely ignored - the reality is that ‘I want to go somewhere now so I will whatever the potential consequences’. Which on an individual level revolves around the very low risk of being caught doing something unreasonable/unlawful rather than the severity of the consequences of their losing control and injuring or killing other people. On population level though such widespread disregard results in innocent people being KILLED everyday on our roads. And then, when someone is actually brought into Court a juries appear to be collectively coming to the conclusion that “you know that could have been me driving that car so I have sympathy with the driver”. Then at the end of a long and probably stressful day in court with all sorts of things going round their mind they get in their car to drive home without a second thought, get their phone out to say they are on their way home and exceed the speed limit. Oh and have a moan about a cyclist not wearing his helmet or not using a rubbish cycle path. That is the reality every day, sadly.

[pwa]

A tired driver gets into the car. They have a decision to make. How tired are they? Just weary but okay for driving? Or dangerously tired, at risk of dropping off? It is not easy to tell. I got it wrong once but soon recognised my mistake and pulled over for a snooze. So I sympathise with someone who misjudges it, but not with someone who recognises their mistake and carries on regardless. Once you know your eyes are going you have to pull over ASAP.

[Bonefishblues]

A tired driver gets into the car. They have a decision to make. How tired are they? Just weary but okay for driving? Or dangerously tired, at risk of dropping off? It is not easy to tell. I got it wrong once but soon recognised my mistake and pulled over for a snooze. So I sympathise with someone who misjudges it, but not with someone who recognises their mistake and carries on regardless. Once you know your eyes are going you have to pull over ASAP.

Indeed. I told the earlier story to illustrate just that, and how I had perhaps learned an important lesson as a young man. It also gave others the opportunity for the now-traditional rush to judgement.

[Bonefishblues]

Of course life isn’t ‘binary’ but the underlying problem is that so many in society believe that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to to without any thought of others. So the idea that there is a decision that needs to be made is completely ignored - the reality is that ‘I want to go somewhere now so I will whatever the potential consequences’. Which on an individual level revolves around the very low risk of being caught doing something unreasonable/unlawful rather than the severity of the consequences of their losing control and injuring or killing other people. On population level though such widespread disregard results in innocent people being KILLED everyday on our roads. And then, when someone is actually brought into Court a juries appear to be collectively coming to the conclusion that “you know that could have been me driving that car so I have sympathy with the driver”. Then at the end of a long and probably stressful day in court with all sorts of things going round their mind they get in their car to drive home without a second thought, get their phone out to say they are on their way home and exceed the speed limit. Oh and have a moan about a cyclist not wearing his helmet or not using a rubbish cycle path. That is the reality every day, sadly.

Do they really? Is society really so dysfunctional as to support that assertion? Most people most/all of the time are actively trying to do the right thing IMHO.

Sure some don't, but I don't subscribe to the more dystopian view often seen on here and elsewhere.

[Cyril Haearn]

Of course life isn’t ‘binary’ but the underlying problem is that so many in society believe that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to to without any thought of others. So the idea that there is a decision that needs to be made is completely ignored - the reality is that ‘I want to go somewhere now so I will whatever the potential consequences’. Which on an individual level revolves around the very low risk of being caught doing something unreasonable/unlawful rather than the severity of the consequences of their losing control and injuring or killing other people. On population level though such widespread disregard results in innocent people being KILLED everyday on our roads. And then, when someone is actually brought into Court a juries appear to be collectively coming to the conclusion that “you know that could have been me driving that car so I have sympathy with the driver”. Then at the end of a long and probably stressful day in court with all sorts of things going round their mind they get in their car to drive home without a second thought, get their phone out to say they are on their way home and exceed the speed limit. Oh and have a moan about a cyclist not wearing his helmet or not using a rubbish cycle path. That is the reality every day, sadly.

Do they really? Is society really so dysfunctional as to support that assertion? Most people most/all of the time are actively trying to do the right thing IMHO.
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. .
.. .

Not when driving, most don't give a ***, the last time they thought about what they were doing was in the driving test
You have used the word 'binary' before
I know what it means, but could you expand a bit how you are using it, is it criticism?

[Bonefishblues]

Of course life isn’t ‘binary’ but the underlying problem is that so many in society believe that they have the absolute right to do whatever they want to to without any thought of others. So the idea that there is a decision that needs to be made is completely ignored - the reality is that ‘I want to go somewhere now so I will whatever the potential consequences’. Which on an individual level revolves around the very low risk of being caught doing something unreasonable/unlawful rather than the severity of the consequences of their losing control and injuring or killing other people. On population level though such widespread disregard results in innocent people being KILLED everyday on our roads. And then, when someone is actually brought into Court a juries appear to be collectively coming to the conclusion that “you know that could have been me driving that car so I have sympathy with the driver”. Then at the end of a long and probably stressful day in court with all sorts of things going round their mind they get in their car to drive home without a second thought, get their phone out to say they are on their way home and exceed the speed limit. Oh and have a moan about a cyclist not wearing his helmet or not using a rubbish cycle path. That is the reality every day, sadly.

Do they really? Is society really so dysfunctional as to support that assertion? Most people most/all of the time are actively trying to do the right thing IMHO.
.
. .
.. .

Not when driving, most don't give a ***, the last time they thought about what they were doing was in the driving test
You have used the word 'binary' before
I know what it means, but could you expand a bit how you are using it, is it criticism?

You have cut my quote I notice. The full quote makes clear my meaning.

I disagree with your statement "most (that would be a majority of the, what, c44 million licensed drivers in the UK) don't give a****")

Were that the case then I would suggest that we would experience utter carnage and chaos on the roads.

Wrt your other question, I find the use of hyperbole and/or the reduction of highly complex issues to soundbites and simplistic "solutions" rather frustrating and lazy. I may on occasion use a term like binary to illustrate this. There's more on the grey scale than exists in pure black and white IMHO.

[Cyril Haearn]

There IS utter chaos and carnage on the roads!

Most drivers cannot (will not?) read

Nearly all ignore STOP signs

My vision: cops teach drivers to read!

[Barks]

Most people most/all of the time are actively trying to do the right thing IMHO.

I agree but “So Many” is not “Most” so I am far from trying to tar everyone with the same brush. My point is that ‘so many’ give very little thought to the risks involved when they drive and distract themselves with all manner of tasks that degrade their cognitive ability. But in population numbers terms, it is these that pose the greater risk to other road users rather than the “mad and bad”. Just like the chap did who got into his car after a very tiring weekend without any real thought, fell asleep at the wheel, and damn near killed someone on the opposite lane - he didn’t think he was doing anything wrong at all, and even didn’t twice when he found himself nodding off.

[Bonefishblues]

There IS utter chaos and carnage on the roads!

Most drivers cannot (will not?) read

Nearly all ignore STOP signs

My vision: cops teach drivers to read!

There demonstrably isn't.

There we depart.

[Bonefishblues]

Most people most/all of the time are actively trying to do the right thing IMHO.

I agree but “So Many” is not “Most” so I am far from trying to tar everyone with the same brush. My point is that ‘so many’ give very little thought to the risks involved when they drive and distract themselves with all manner of tasks that degrade their cognitive ability. But in population numbers terms, it is these that pose the greater risk to other road users rather than the “mad and bad”. Just like the chap did who got into his car after a very tiring weekend without any real thought, fell asleep at the wheel, and damn near killed someone on the opposite lane - he didn’t think he was doing anything wrong at all, and even didn’t twice when he found himself nodding off.

Some do, for sure. I have said that. They pose a proportionally greater risk. There's our agreement.

I don't know if the chap who has just been jailed thought that he wasn't doing anything wrong at all, I couldn't see anything referencing that in the press reports. We do know that he had stopped twice because of tiredness.

[Cyril Haearn]

The *majority* break the law on every journey, ignore stop signs, priority, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance, unbroken lines &c &c
Anyone agree?