Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 3950
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Mar 2018, 9:28pm

Not sure that throws any light on matters?

brynpoeth
Posts: 4569
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Mar 2018, 9:38pm

Most drivers deserve to lose their licences
We love life = We love safety cameras :D
We love life = We love stop signs
..
The Watercress Line New Alresford, Hampshire, Britain's premier steam railway
Thomas & Santa events, great for children of all ages

Bonefishblues
Posts: 3950
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Mar 2018, 9:51pm

Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Barks
Posts: 126
Joined: 14 Oct 2016, 5:27pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Barks » 18 Mar 2018, 12:57am

While I agree that the vast majority of drivers do not actively go out of their way to endanger others, a great many do so by using their phone, adjusting their sat nav or radio, exceeding speed limit without realising that every small act wil one day catch them out. A case in point- 20 year old, subjected to the dreaded black box by his insurance company finally gets in a car without one and in that FIRST journey after 3 years driving picks up a speeding fine. Why, because when driving with the black box he knew he would be ‘caught’ out. Thankfully it was not something more serious. Fit a black box in every vehicle, we wouldn’t need speed cameras, it would probably be cheaper, and lo and behold, speed limits are respected and every one is that bit safer. Could it really be that easy?

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 1244
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Mar 2018, 2:32am

Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.

pwa
Posts: 6857
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby pwa » 18 Mar 2018, 7:32am

The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.


Maybe where you live but around here the dangerous drivers are a minority, and i think they are despised by other drivers. But why does every thread about one very particular issue, in this case driving while unfit due to tiredness, turn into a long list of every possible type of driving infringement?

millimole
Posts: 411
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby millimole » 18 Mar 2018, 8:36am

pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.


Maybe where you live but around here the dangerous drivers are a minority, and i think they are despised by other drivers. But why does every thread about one very particular issue, in this case driving while unfit due to tiredness, turn into a long list of every possible type of driving infringement?
Because a minority of cyclists will demonise all drivers, in the same way a minority of drivers will demonise all cyclists.

The natural temptation is to remember the bad stuff - the close passes, the abuse etc from the (?)5% and ignore the benign (or good) behaviour of the remainder.
I simply do not observe (anecdotal) the level of law breaking and inconsiderate behaviour that others report on here - but then I don't go looking for it.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my stupid phone.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

reohn2
Posts: 29718
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Mar 2018, 8:53am

millimole wrote:
pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.


Maybe where you live but around here the dangerous drivers are a minority, and i think they are despised by other drivers. But why does every thread about one very particular issue, in this case driving while unfit due to tiredness, turn into a long list of every possible type of driving infringement?
Because a minority of cyclists will demonise all drivers, in the same way a minority of drivers will demonise all cyclists.

The natural temptation is to remember the bad stuff - the close passes, the abuse etc from the (?)5% and ignore the benign (or good) behaviour of the remainder.

That gets a very definite +1 from me

I simply do not observe (anecdotal) the level of law breaking and inconsiderate behaviour that others report on here - but then I don't go looking for it.

I have to disagree,I witness it every day I use the roads,it's a rare day I don't see or encounter dangerous,stupid or downright selfish driving,tailgating,especially on motorways and RLjing by motorists being the most common and if I look around when stopped at a TL more often than not there's some one sat in a car texting.
EDIT,just to add that perhaps it depends how congested the roads are that brings out the worst in drivers.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

brynpoeth
Posts: 4569
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Mar 2018, 9:13am

It is fascinating to read how differently people, who have a lot in common, perceive the same thing
I would like to understand it, from a philosophical point of view. There are plenty of other examples of different views and changes in perception, for example a few centuries ago few people would have thought of climbing the 'awfully sublime' mountains for fun

Could cognitive dissonance (holding two conflicting views at the same time) be involved? The group of forum members includes different opinions but can one person hold conflicting opinions?

Alternative facts welcome

'There is your way and there is my way, but there is not THE way'- after signature used by 'bikepacker'
We love life = We love safety cameras :D
We love life = We love stop signs
..
The Watercress Line New Alresford, Hampshire, Britain's premier steam railway
Thomas & Santa events, great for children of all ages

reohn2
Posts: 29718
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Mar 2018, 10:05am

brynpoeth wrote:It is fascinating to read how differently people, who have a lot in common, perceive the same thing
I would like to understand it, from a philosophical point of view. There are plenty of other examples of different views and changes in perception, for example a few centuries ago few people would have thought of climbing the 'awfully sublime' mountains for fun

I think a lot of that comes from sound reasoning,until the midle of the last century the vast majority simply didn't have the free time or could afford the equipement to tackle such endeavours and as a result such feats were thought of as beyond their reach because of that,that applies to climbing mountains or owning and driving cars,now there's more free time and money about so driving and mountaineering is more readily available to whoever wishes to partake,in the case of driving due to it's availability the cars is prevalent on the roads and owned by almost everyone,however stupid and selfcentred they maybe,so long as they can pass a once in a lifetime test.
Could cognitive dissonance (holding two conflicting views at the same time) be involved? The group of forum members includes different opinions but can one person hold conflicting opinions?

A person's opinion and outlook may vary from day to day or they may see a reason for someone's action one day and can't comprhend the reason for the same action another,perhaps due to their own outlook or the other person's action.
But in most dangerous driving actions the absolute reason is time,the people who commit these dangerous actions are chasing an imaginary clock that's ahead of them,that clock for the most part IMO is set either by themselves or their employer.



'There is your way and there is my way, but there is not THE way'- after signature used by 'bikepacker'

But using the roads requires an adherence to the Highway Code for maximum safety and efficiency,so in this sense for the most part bikepacker's sig doesn't apply(though I understand that in many other situations in life it can and does).
IME some people become totally unreasonable when they get behind the wheel of a motor,the HC goes out the window and the 'my way' prevails,and is usually demonstrated in a me first attitude toward other road users.There's a junction close to where I live that I see this attitude every,that's every,time I use it,where motors will block off through traffic even though they have no way forward,and only because they have a green light even though they'll block off the rest of the traffic moving,and in so doing stop traffic moving causing much manoeuvring by other cars to restore traffic flow and in fact slowing their own progress as a knock on effect.When all they had to do was wait.
Patience isn't a lot of motorists greatest asset.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Mike Sales
Posts: 1859
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm
Location: Fenland

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Mike Sales » 18 Mar 2018, 10:17am

pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.


Maybe where you live but around here the dangerous drivers are a minority, and i think they are despised by other drivers. But why does every thread about one very particular issue, in this case driving while unfit due to tiredness, turn into a long list of every possible type of driving infringement?


The thing is, most accidents are not caused by those who are known as "dangerous drivers". They are caused by ordinary drivers who are "trying to be safe", but not trying quite hard enough. The prevalence of speeding, phone use, rljing, tailgating etc. shows this.
The reluctance of juries to convict of dangerous driving in so many cases where the posters on this forum say something like, "if that's not dangerous driving, what is?" shows this.
The roads that are dangerous enough for these quite ordinary drivers to be afraid to cycle on, though they themselves drive them in much the same manner as everyone else, shows this. For some it may show a dim conciousness that they are not really taking enough care for a cyclist to be safe sharing the road with them.
Drivers who bimble along taking enough care to feel safe themselves, well protected as they are, but not enough care for the vulnerable road users around them to feel safe, are in fact dangerous, in the ordinary meaning of the word.
Hiviz would not be needed to protect us from the inattention of the ordinary driver if only they obeyed HC 126.
Most traffic past my house in the centre of a by-passed village is breaking the speed limit, as detected by the Parish Council's radar. Children walking from the nursery to the school in a peloton wear Hiviz. The rambling club wear hiviz. The drivers who make them feel this is necessary are not "dangerous drivers". They are not despised by their fellow villagers.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 3950
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Mar 2018, 11:15am

The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.

How can it be that there are so relatively few deaths and injuries on our roads if this is the case?

reohn2
Posts: 29718
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Mar 2018, 11:36am

Bonefishblues wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Most drivers exercise care and attention whilst driving and drive to a safe standard. It is important not to demonise those, but rather to seek to address those, a minority, whose driving is a danger to others.

Sorry but I simply do not agree with this, 10% ... maybe.

How can it be that there are so relatively few deaths and injuries on our roads if this is the case?

TBF due to safer cars both for occupants and pedesrians,a better measure would be the number of crashes(perhaps insurance companies figures would be the best source for figures)proportional to vehicles on the road and or mileage travelled.
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Mar 2018, 11:37am, edited 1 time in total.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Mike Sales
Posts: 1859
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm
Location: Fenland

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Mike Sales » 18 Mar 2018, 11:36am

Bonefishblues wrote:How can it be that there are so relatively few deaths and injuries on our roads if this is the case?


So few? If knives, guns, or terrorists caused as many the present efforts we make to stop them would be intensified hugely. And if, in spite of our present anti terrorist measures, the bombers killed approaching 2,000 people a year and maimed many more, then.....

The present danger on the roads deters many people from walking or cycling, and means that the ones left cycling feel it necessary to take feeble precautions like hiviz and polystyrene hats, and to take a lot more care to keep out of the way. Whenever I hear an engine I start thinking about how best to react. My thoughts are about how to forestall any idiocy by the driver. Some even ride on the pavement.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 3950
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Conwy driver jailed for head-on crash with cyclist

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Mar 2018, 11:56am

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:How can it be that there are so relatively few deaths and injuries on our roads if this is the case?


So few? If knives, guns, or terrorists caused as many the present efforts we make to stop them would be intensified hugely. And if, in spite of our present anti terrorist measures, the bombers killed approaching 2,000 people a year and maimed many more, then.....

The present danger on the roads deters many people from walking or cycling, and means that the ones left cycling feel it necessary to take feeble precautions like hiviz and polystyrene hats, and to take a lot more care to keep out of the way. Whenever I hear an engine I start thinking about how best to react. My thoughts are about how to forestall any idiocy by the driver. Some even ride on the pavement.

So relatively few. You will see I have earlier posted that the numbers are too high. You will also see I was responding to a specific point made by UC.

If you want to make a point, fine, but do not misrepresent a point I make to suit your agenda please.