You Tube Head Cam footage

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arnsider
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You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby arnsider » 23 Mar 2018, 8:18pm

I watch You Tube quite a bit for various topics.
Inevitably, I see an awful lot of Cyclist/Motorist conflicts through the lens of helmet and frame mounted cameras, mostly from rush hour London.
I am appalled by the frequency and seriousness of the incidents.
Thank God I don't have to live in that awful hell hole!!!
You are all welcome to it, along with the myriads of nasty, impatient malcontents it spawns!

drossall
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby drossall » 23 Mar 2018, 8:38pm

Experiences seem to vary. I ride from Finsbury Park into Islington, then down hill to Kings Cross, daily, and across London to Hammersmith occasionally. I won't say I never have a problem, but it's very, very rare. I don't bother with a headcam because there'd be nothing interesting to record.

I spent decades avoiding cycling in London. Now I quite like it.

Igobybike
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby Igobybike » 2 Apr 2018, 11:16pm

drossall wrote:Experiences seem to vary. I ride from Finsbury Park into Islington, then down hill to Kings Cross, daily, and across London to Hammersmith occasionally. I won't say I never have a problem, but it's very, very rare. I don't bother with a headcam because there'd be nothing interesting to record.


I am a London commuter. Until a few days ago I might have thought the same, but I bought a helmet cam anyway to document a journey I'm planning for later in the year, and for other hobbies. Since I've got it now, I fitted it and started using/testing it for my commute. The very day after I did so, I was unfortunately involved in an accident that happened within minutes of setting off, the kind of accident that years of roadcraft can't help you avoid (an oncoming driver simply didn't see me although he had several seconds in which to do so and crossed suddenly into my lane cutting the corner to enter a side road knocking me off) and the footage is important evidence as to what happened.

Sometimes I think there is a tendency to think that what happens to others won't happen to me: I'm really careful, I keep a good lookout, anticipate well, am courteous to others, etc etc, nothing has ever happened so nothing ever will, not to me. But, here's the thing - we can control the things we can control, but not everything is in our control. To some extent every day we cycle and survive there is an element of luck involved. I'm quite a fan of helmet cams now. Don't use one if you don't want, but it might be a mistake to assume there will never be anything interesting to record..

drossall
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby drossall » 3 Apr 2018, 6:55am

Absolutely. I've been commuting by bike for 30 years, only latterly in London. In that time, I've had two incidents like that, both within a relatively short time of each other. It's funny how things happen like that. I used the CTC legal service both times.

I'm not saying that it could never happen, but it's so infrequent that I bet I wouldn't be running the camera when it did...

It seems to me that cyclists popularised the use of cameras. Now dash cams are coming into use everywhere. It all feels like another sign of the aggression of road users against each other. I wonder how many are "not running" when an accident happens and evidence is needed? :?

thirdcrank
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Apr 2018, 7:23am

I've used dashcams ever since decent models became available at a reasonable price. The quality of the footage seems to be steadily improving, like most electronic stuff.

Luckily, I've never needed to refer to it for anything but personal interest. My original reason for buying it was a near head-on miss with an unliveried car being driven badly using grille-mounted blue lights and a siren. I decided I needed my own record of any future incident.

I do review footage occasionally to see what happened. I suspect that for some riders, there's a tendency to look out for things to report, which they might otherwise ignore. It's a bit like mobile phones; people seem quick to make emergency calls about things they wouldn't stop and use a landline for, even when kiosks - public phone boxes - were much more numerous.

Randy_Butternubs
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby Randy_Butternubs » 3 Apr 2018, 2:24pm

In 2015 TFL found that roughly 1 in 500,000 journeys by bicycle in London resulted in death or serious injury. It therefore seems likely that if head-cammers uploaded all of their footage you would never be able to find the incidents buried under all the uneventful journeys. It's just that with 23 million journeys by bicycle a year you are inevitably going to end up with a lot of near misses put up on Youtube.

Also bear in mind that 'serious injury' seems to include things like nasty cuts, light concussions, hairline fractures etc.

That isn't to say that the level of danger involved in cycling is acceptable, or that you shouldn't be concerned about it; it just means that going by near-miss videos on the internet is a bad way to assess danger.

As humans, we subconsciously evaluate danger based on past experience - in this case how many trouble free journeys you have compared to the number of near misses or accidents. By loading up your mind with near-miss videos without the corresponding hours or happy cycling you inevitably come to view cycling as more dangerous than it really is. This is a huge issue in general with modern communications, media, and internet. I recommend you stop watching them.

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Cunobelin
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby Cunobelin » 4 Apr 2018, 6:08am

The cyclist part can be irrelevant, Dashcam footage is equally prevalent and similar in content

Ironically I have had the same driver cautioned on a bike head cam, and a car dashcam

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The utility cyclist
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby The utility cyclist » 5 Apr 2018, 3:28pm

arnsider wrote:I watch You Tube quite a bit for various topics.
Inevitably, I see an awful lot of Cyclist/Motorist conflicts through the lens of helmet and frame mounted cameras, mostly from rush hour London.
I am appalled by the frequency and seriousness of the incidents.
Thank God I don't have to live in that awful hell hole!!!
You are all welcome to it, along with the myriads of nasty, impatient malcontents it spawns!

There are well over 600,000 cycle journeys in London a day http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33002701, how many reflect the worst incidents, 0.1%, 0.01, 0.001%, probably closer to the latter with 1.18 KSI/day(9% of all UK cycling KSIs). Too many but a handful out of half a million is why cycling even in a poophole like London cycling isn't as bad as some make out.
Last edited by The utility cyclist on 5 Apr 2018, 7:35pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mjr
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby mjr » 5 Apr 2018, 5:40pm

drossall wrote:It seems to me that cyclists popularised the use of cameras. Now dash cams are coming into use everywhere. It all feels like another sign of the aggression of road users against each other.

It is, but probably not in the way you think: I got my first bike camera after being the victim in a road rage incident which the police refused to prosecute. In the several years since, it's been useful in two incidents, both minor things resolved without police.

If I remember correctly, a relative also suffered a scoundrel driving into their car, admitting fault at the scene then denying everything to their insurer, so I think now them and their immediate family are all kitted out with dashcams. My current bike cam can double as a dashcam but I don't drive alone that much and it's a nuisance hooking it up. The always-there-loop-recording-from-ignition-on ones are probably better for that.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

danhopgood
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby danhopgood » 6 Apr 2018, 12:33pm

Having been using an "always on" camera on the bike for the last three years, I had my first proper "incident" the other day. A car gave me zero space pulling away from a pedestrian crossing where I had given way. I gave him a warning wave, he kept coming. I tapped his car, following which he tried to swerve me off the road and then stopped, got out and punched me as I rode past. All on video. Police currently saying "not in public interest to take further" without even looking at the video evidence. That's the state of the nation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MdzH8VnZH6LCFTXCJDA9SuXNrbpwEmpG/view?ts=5aba0a59

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mjr
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby mjr » 6 Apr 2018, 2:19pm

danhopgood wrote:Police currently saying "not in public interest to take further" without even looking at the video evidence. That's the state of the nation.

State of your police, at least. Which one are they?

They could claim the close pass was because they thought you were stopping or letting them pass because you seemed to have pulled into the kerb (debatably), but that doesn't excuse the assault... the punch isn't completely obvious to me from the video, though... it looks far from an easy case, but I'm surprised they didn't want to give the driver some sort of warning and note the details for a possible next time.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

danhopgood
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby danhopgood » 6 Apr 2018, 2:53pm

Hampshire Police. They have told me the car reg is not straightforward so they can't automatically trace the driver - they said the car may be in the trade. I said can't they just find the driver and give him a talking to. The response was they haven't got the resource for that....

Debs
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby Debs » 6 Apr 2018, 3:02pm

danhopgood wrote: Police currently saying "not in public interest to take further" without even looking at the video evidence. That's the state of the nation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MdzH8VnZH6LCFTXCJDA9SuXNrbpwEmpG/view?ts=5aba0a59


If it were me driving my car i would never squeeze up along side a cyclist like that, i'd stop behind, let cyclist proceed first when zebra is clear, follow cyclist until safe to pass - simples.

From what i see in the vid footage above, Dan was a victim of a careless, or aggressive car driver, who looks like a proper Mr Nasty when he gets out of his car.
If that happened to me, and the Police weren't interested, i would ask my local MP what i'm paying my taxes for if the police don't withhold the law.

Dan, were you injured at all by the assault?

Debs

danhopgood
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby danhopgood » 6 Apr 2018, 3:08pm

Debs,
I wasn't injured, other than a sore arm for a couple of minutes. I think I would have been injured if I'd been slower going up the hill - and if I hadn't avoided the car swerving towards me I hate to think what the outcome would have been. I worked out the distance between the kerb and his wing mirror was <200mm more than the width of my handlebars. Lack of injury was one of the factors the Police said means they're not taking more action.

Tizme
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Re: You Tube Head Cam footage

Postby Tizme » 6 Apr 2018, 4:00pm

But that really is pathetic, if he is willing to try to run you down and then when that fails stop and assault you then he has a real problem and should not be on the road. One reason why more and more people (it seems to me) are unwilling to ride a bike in traffic.

Without going away from the original OP too much, I really wish I had had my head cam today. I stopped using it once I stopped commuting (retired :D). Today I cycled to the local town from my village (4 miles each way). I wore "normal" clothes, no helmet and rode my touring bike (with a pannier for my shopping). I'm not sure if I was invisible but I had more close passes in those 8 miles than I have in ages, perhaps I am less tolerant of close passes now I am not commuting, but I really lost my rag when a driver overtook going through a pedestrian refuge, so much so that I smacked the window as he was so close. He was in such a hurry that he stopped to have a go at me and according to his passenger I deliberately swerved out towards them. I tried saying that if I was close enough to touch the car they were too close, but they were having none of it, I deliberately tried to ride in to them - obviously the fact that I would come off worse in any impact was irrelevant!