Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

http://midlifecycling.blogspot.com/2018 ... -bike.html says the US Coast Guard opposes dockless bikes because they are left on ferries and when the crew finds them, the Coastguard gets called to look for the missing rider in the water.

I think they should be requiring the dockless bike company to give them a way to call the phone of a hirer and setting a fine for leaving a bike on a ferry.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 3607
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by The utility cyclist »

To me they are a sign of failed infrastructure/failed society, certainly in the numbers that are around. If we had a truly integrated transport network people would be able to take bikes along for longer journeys and certainly feel safe enough and/or have available a network to be able to cycle from home to work/ etc. This IMO would negate the need for dockless particularly if there is an efficient docked system, which is massively better IMHO.
There are certainly more issues/problems with dockless over docked systems, ones that are replicated pretty much everywhere.
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by Cyril Haearn »

One has read about problems in distant countries
Any observations from the UK?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
User avatar
Wanlock Dod
Posts: 577
Joined: 28 Sep 2016, 5:48pm

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by Wanlock Dod »

The utility cyclist wrote:To me they are a sign of failed infrastructure/failed society...

Haven't the Dutch station bikes been an integral part of their public transport system for quite a long time though? It removes the need to take a large bike on a long journey in many cases and can massively simplify completing a rail journey. The usual alternative in the UK would presumably be an expensive cab ride or a long walk.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

Wanlock Dod wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:To me they are a sign of failed infrastructure/failed society...

Haven't the Dutch station bikes been an integral part of their public transport system for quite a long time though? It removes the need to take a large bike on a long journey in many cases and can massively simplify completing a rail journey. The usual alternative in the UK would presumably be an expensive cab ride or a long walk.

I think OV-Fiets is basically a consistent 24x7 national version of http://www.BikeAndGo.co.uk - it's a docking system, but the docks are at more rail stations, some are automated (unlike BAG which some wit renamed "beg and go" because you have to ask at the ticket office and wait for a member of staff to find a key) and the day hire rates are much lower than for most UK dock systems. The OV-Fiets currently has a 1 cent annual charge (primarily to check your card is still valid) and €3.85/day whereas BAG is £10/year and £3.80/day - but BAGs can be returned to other BAG stations free while OV charge €10 for that.

If Network Rail, Rail Delivery Group, Association of Train Operating Companies or someone could get their act together and unify or federate the mishmash of hire schemes found at UK stations, then it might work better here, but at the moment, you'd have to set up multiple accounts (usually each needing some money preloading) and even then you can end up somewhere unable to hire.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 3607
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by The utility cyclist »

Wanlock Dod wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:To me they are a sign of failed infrastructure/failed society...

Haven't the Dutch station bikes been an integral part of their public transport system for quite a long time though? It removes the need to take a large bike on a long journey in many cases and can massively simplify completing a rail journey. The usual alternative in the UK would presumably be an expensive cab ride or a long walk.

Please read past my first sentence "This IMO would negate the need for dockless particularly if there is an efficient docked system, which is massively better IMHO"
I'm against dockless which I think is a rubbish 'solution'
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

The utility cyclist wrote:To me they are a sign of failed infrastructure/failed society, certainly in the numbers that are around. If we had a truly integrated transport network people would be able to take bikes along for longer journeys and certainly feel safe enough and/or have available a network to be able to cycle from home to work/ etc. This IMO would negate the need for dockless particularly if there is an efficient docked system, which is massively better IMHO.
There are certainly more issues/problems with dockless over docked systems, ones that are replicated pretty much everywhere.

What more issues/problems are there with dockless than docked? People complain about the dockless bikes being left in the way, but they also seem to complain about the docks taking up space all the time.

I'm not sure whether they're a sign of network failure. Surely there's higher capacity on mass transport if people don't as often feel they need/want to take a bike with them because they're confident of being able to hire one for the final leg?
Cyril Haearn wrote:Any observations from the UK?

Only some grumbles about people leaving the bikes parked obstructively, but that's not really unique to dockless, although I guess people worry less about the bike being impounded or vandalised when it's not theirs. I do wonder if bike-bashers might be moving the bikes INTO the way to damage their reputation but so far I've only seen videos from abroad, like the guy who threw an ofo down the atrium of a block of flats :shock:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by thirdcrank »

Isn't this another example of the same mentality that causes the problems with shopping trolleys? When you've done with it, don't return it to the dock but dump it in the canal instead.
SA_SA_SA
Posts: 2360
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 1:46pm

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by SA_SA_SA »

mjr wrote:...I'm not sure whether they're a sign of network failure. Surely there's higher capacity on mass transport if people don't as often feel they need/want to take a bike with them because they're confident of being able to hire one for the final leg?...


But surely many people, including me, (especially on this forum) would rather ride their own bike at their destination...
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote:Isn't this another example of the same mentality that causes the problems with shopping trolleys? When you've done with it, don't return it to the dock but dump it in the canal instead.

Not so much, I think - the dockless operator has the user's credit card, so if they're reasonably sure who dumped it, they could charge them money. More problematic are those who don't tell the owner to collect their lost trollies, or even simply move the lost trolley to one side and leave them, but dump them in the river instead.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

SA_SA_SA wrote:
mjr wrote:...I'm not sure whether they're a sign of network failure. Surely there's higher capacity on mass transport if people don't as often feel they need/want to take a bike with them because they're confident of being able to hire one for the final leg?...


But surely many people, including me, (especially on this forum) would rather ride their own bike at their destination...

I doubt it's that many. I suspect most people, including me, would happily not lug their bike on and off trains much if we could be reasonably sure of being able to hire one for the final leg, especially if the final leg isn't very far and the bike's reasonably decent.

There's still a need for bike transport, though, especially for touring.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by Bmblbzzz »

The thing I don't like about dockless hire bikes is that people leave them at bike stands even though they have their own built-in prop stand and locks. This is a bigger problem than abandoning a non-hire bike at a stand because there are more of them, they don't get moved (unlike other bikes which when left for a long time get either removed by LA or stolen), they are often wedged between stands regardless of bikes already being there, and they are much heavier, making them harder to move to access your own bike.

On the whole though I think they're beneficial. They are very popular among commuters, tourists and random groups of people going out for a ride together; or just going somewhere! This means more cycling, which is good for everyone.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by [XAP]Bob »

SA_SA_SA wrote:
mjr wrote:...I'm not sure whether they're a sign of network failure. Surely there's higher capacity on mass transport if people don't as often feel they need/want to take a bike with them because they're confident of being able to hire one for the final leg?...


But surely many people, including me, (especially on this forum) would rather ride their own bike at their destination...


Many people might - but the definition of many here is likely to be small.
I'd happily pay a small amount each year to have short term bike hire available at destinations - particularly if that is a commute. I did this in Dublin, though they are docked, and it was great. I've used the London bikes as well...

There may well be an argument for having a 'dockless' bike area at very busy locations (i.e. stations)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
100%JR
Posts: 1138
Joined: 31 May 2016, 10:47pm
Location: High Green,Sheffield.

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by 100%JR »

mjr wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:Isn't this another example of the same mentality that causes the problems with shopping trolleys? When you've done with it, don't return it to the dock but dump it in the canal instead.

Not so much, I think - the dockless operator has the user's credit card, so if they're reasonably sure who dumped it, they could charge them money.

I wonder if they have the credit card details of all the young scroats riding around North Sheffield on these things.The fact that the "locking mechanisms" has been smashed off would tell me no.They're usually painted black and the Police don't seem to care that there's about 7 or 8 of these bikes being ridden,by the same youths outside our local Co-op.Even though they've had a crude repaint it's obvious what they are :roll:

I seem to remember reading that in Italy (Milan?) the scheme was abandoned as most got nicked?
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Strange reasons to oppose dockless bikes

Post by mjr »

ibbo68 wrote: [...] young scroats riding around North Sheffield on these things.The fact that the "locking mechanisms" has been smashed off would tell me no.They're usually painted black and the Police don't seem to care that there's about 7 or 8 of these bikes being ridden,by the same youths outside our local Co-op.Even though they've had a crude repaint it's obvious what they are :roll:

Sheffield Police seem to be refusing to cooperate with ofo, from reports I read elsewhere. And bluntly, I'd rather the scroats were nicking ofo's bikes than people's own bikes!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Post Reply