Excuses excuses

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Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Mike Sales »

Cugel wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:A matchstick holding the button down is something less than damage. Holding the light on red would help pedestrians.
Crossings are put in places with clear visibility, because the highwaymen cannot rely on the alertness of drivers. You too think that drivers need restraint to stop them killing. You may be right there!

There is available a perfectly good crossing of a type that has a virtual matchstick in the virtual button but only when the pedestrians are there and wanting to cross. It's called a zebra crossing and works very well, since the priority is given to the intermittent pedestrians rather than to the interminable flow of thrusting tin weapons.

This being so, pedestrians don't have to stand for 5 minutes in the rain getting splashed by puddle-running Toads in their cars; and can also proceed across the road at their own pace instead of having to toss aside their stick or pushchair as the flashing lights and beepers exhort them to scurry off quick as Toad is all a-rev and ready to go, slow old gran in the way or not!

Cugel

I know of a place where, if you want to continue your walk along the river bank on the other side of the roaring inner ring road, you have six seperate road crossings, six successive seperate buttons to push and six waits for the lords of the road to be stopped.
I also resent the accelerating noise of the beeper.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Tangled Metal
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Tangled Metal »

Round where I live the most obvious reason for pedestrian lights being on red with nobody crossing is because they're set for the benefit of the motorists. By that I mean they have a very long wait time and run on green man for a very short period of time (the smallest allowed crossing time).

The net result of this is that at all times but the list busiest pedestrians have got sick of waiting and have taken the chance to cross when they see what appears to be a big enough gap between speeding motorists. I know the traffic mostly speeds there because further down the three road there's a crossroads controlled by traffic lights. When I've driven along there I've almost always accelerated to 30mph (the speed limit) then got left behind and a build up of vehicles appears behind me.

Just pointing out that in some cases (I've noticed a lot of others) pedestrian lights have a very unfair and one sided timing setup. Whilst I'd never do such a thing I can see why people would consider pressing the button after crossing or even temporarily jamming the button. It is wrong but so is the way things are biased against pedestrians in favour of the motorists.

I've posted several times on here and other forums about a set of double lights, staggered crossroads near me that has no forethought towards the safety of pedestrians. I'm really surprised there has never been any deaths since the junction was built. It was just another section of road built to a standard that works for motorists but to hell with any other road user or pedestrian.

As for 20mph speed limits, my understanding they were brought in for residential streets, roads near schools and other places where children are expected to be. Plus the idea was that a lower speed results not just in fewer deaths / higher survivability but also less severe injuries. I am sure most here will accept the cost of 10mph in exchange for their child not needing a wheelchair or sticks for the rest of their lives.

Death isn't the only negative outcome that can be reduced by speed reduction. Are there any figures for speed and serious disability/injury following impact?
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

eileithyia wrote:Have only read half the responses, I am surprised anyone suggests slowing traffic by deliberately pressing lights whether they are crossing or not...
There is nothing more frustrating as a cyclist or a motorist in slowing down for lights when there is no one crossing.... and the messing around with slowing down / speeding up sorting gears out esp on the bike. For many motorists (and you do see it) they clearly get frustrated being slowed down (yes I know tough etc etc., but it happens) then they start getting impatient and accelerate at inappropriate speeds to make up time... which is more dangerous?

To start with deliberately slowing traffic at pedestrian lights can only increase the fumes being chugged out into the atmosphere.... just as much a killer as the speeding motorist, surely?
...
...

Slowing traffic? What was the first post on this thread - someone caught speeding many times, speeding crime is one of the commonest themes on these fora!

One imagines nearly all fora members are in favour of more traffic law enforcement, not just speed limits but the cops are unable or unwilling to do much
So I imagine the great majority would take up my suggestion, there are 28 000 members maybe half active, if half of those pressed the buttons at every opportunity it would make a big difference

'more fumes' is a familiar bleat of the motor lobby, just like the assertion that going slower uses more fuel

I allow plenty of time when driving, really don't mind 'losing' 5 minutes or even 10 on a half-hour journey
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Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Bonefishblues »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
eileithyia wrote:Have only read half the responses, I am surprised anyone suggests slowing traffic by deliberately pressing lights whether they are crossing or not...
There is nothing more frustrating as a cyclist or a motorist in slowing down for lights when there is no one crossing.... and the messing around with slowing down / speeding up sorting gears out esp on the bike. For many motorists (and you do see it) they clearly get frustrated being slowed down (yes I know tough etc etc., but it happens) then they start getting impatient and accelerate at inappropriate speeds to make up time... which is more dangerous?

To start with deliberately slowing traffic at pedestrian lights can only increase the fumes being chugged out into the atmosphere.... just as much a killer as the speeding motorist, surely?
...
...

Slowing traffic? What was the first post on this thread - someone caught speeding many times, speeding crime is one of the commonest themes on these fora!

One imagines nearly all fora members are in favour of more traffic law enforcement, not just speed limits but the cops are unable or unwilling to do much
So I imagine the great majority would take up my suggestion, there are 28 000 members maybe half active, if half of those pressed the buttons at every opportunity it would make a big difference

'more fumes' is a familiar bleat of the motor lobby, just like the assertion that going slower uses more fuel

I allow plenty of time when driving, really don't mind 'losing' 5 minutes or even 10 on a half-hour journey

I think you are wrong on the aspect I have emboldened.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries
Press the button - fight the terrorists!
(or 'motons' if one prefers)
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pwa
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by pwa »

Cyril Haearn wrote:Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries
Press the button - fight the terrorists!
(or 'motons' if one prefers)


You seem to be fighting a war. I'm not.
eileithyia
Posts: 8399
Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by eileithyia »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
eileithyia wrote:Have only read half the responses, I am surprised anyone suggests slowing traffic by deliberately pressing lights whether they are crossing or not...
There is nothing more frustrating as a cyclist or a motorist in slowing down for lights when there is no one crossing.... and the messing around with slowing down / speeding up sorting gears out esp on the bike. For many motorists (and you do see it) they clearly get frustrated being slowed down (yes I know tough etc etc., but it happens) then they start getting impatient and accelerate at inappropriate speeds to make up time... which is more dangerous?

To start with deliberately slowing traffic at pedestrian lights can only increase the fumes being chugged out into the atmosphere.... just as much a killer as the speeding motorist, surely?
...
...

Slowing traffic? What was the first post on this thread - someone caught speeding many times, speeding crime is one of the commonest themes on these fora!

One imagines nearly all fora members are in favour of more traffic law enforcement, not just speed limits but the cops are unable or unwilling to do much
So I imagine the great majority would take up my suggestion, there are 28 000 members maybe half active, if half of those pressed the buttons at every opportunity it would make a big difference

'more fumes' is a familiar bleat of the motor lobby, just like the assertion that going slower uses more fuel

I allow plenty of time when driving, really don't mind 'losing' 5 minutes or even 10 on a half-hour journey


Well Yes, but there is a difference between travelling at a slower steady constant(ish) speed, and continually slowing down, stopping, revving up and accelerating away again..... which is likely to engender increased impatience.

For the record I always over estimate travel time to places, regularly just trundle along the motorways at 60-65 as relaxed as possible and arrive reasonably stress free and chilled. I do however have a child that does have a tendancy to try to thwart that.... :lol:
Despite travelling the furthest distance and usually by bike I would always be the first at work and on shift ready to start... rather than those who arrived last minute or late and clearly very rattled by their experience.

As for deliberately hitting pedestrian lights to slow traffic.... as a cyclist it is very annoying to constantly slow down for no pedestrian and it's no wonder some cyclists might run the red light and earn the reputation we seem to have created in the press and driver's minds.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
Bonefishblues
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Bonefishblues »

You're very good BP, credit where it's due :lol:
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries
Press the button - fight the terrorists!
(or 'motons' if one prefers)


You seem to be fighting a war. I'm not.

I am the ministry of defence
Hasn't been called the war ministry for a while
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Cyril Haearn wrote:Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries

Anyone disagree with this statement?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Mike Sales »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries

Anyone disagree with this statement?

It also makes our street environment much less convivial, much less pleasant to use, and discourages less unhealthy and dangerous modes of transport.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cugel »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Driving crime including but not limited to exceeding the maximum speed limit is one of the greatest curses of society
It causes many avoidable deaths and injuries

Anyone disagree with this statement?


I agree absolutely. However ...

Does one fight a bad act with another? Me mam said, "Two wrongs don't make a right" so perhaps I am unable to break this early conditioning. Rule of Law is the solution to getting the law obeyed, surely.

Well, alright ... pressing the crossing button as a Toad-pestering action is not illegal. Yet the attitude informing it is approaching that line where one steps into the territory in which illegal countermeasures are made agin' them as are already doing illegal things (like speeding). Before long there are knife fights in the street or even explosions!

In all events, Toad will find ways to react vehemently against those he suspects are delaying him. Or against a surrogate, such as my cat trying to cross the road; or perhaps those damned (literally) children daring (in time dishonoured fashion) to play in the street. Your button-jam may become a contributory factor to such a sad event, as it tweaks Toad's aggression-volume knob up a notch or two.

Listen out for not just a poop-poop but a POOP-POOP-POOP. It may be the last thing your hear.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Mike Sales
Posts: 7882
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Mike Sales »

Cugel wrote:
I agree absolutely. However ...

Does one fight a bad act with another? Me mam said, "Two wrongs don't make a right" so perhaps I am unable to break this early conditioning. Rule of Law is the solution to getting the law obeyed, surely.

Well, alright ... pressing the crossing button as a Toad-pestering action is not illegal. Yet the attitude informing it is approaching that line where one steps into the territory in which illegal countermeasures are made agin' them as are already doing illegal things (like speeding). Before long there are knife fights in the street or even explosions!

In all events, Toad will find ways to react vehemently against those he suspects are delaying him. Or against a surrogate, such as my cat trying to cross the road; or perhaps those damned (literally) children daring (in time dishonoured fashion) to play in the street. Your button-jam may become a contributory factor to such a sad event, as it tweaks Toad's aggression-volume knob up a notch or two.

Listen out for not just a poop-poop but a POOP-POOP-POOP. It may be the last thing your hear.

Cugel


Are you saying that it is unwise to provoke Toad? I don't think we should have to tiptoe around his arrogance and not upset him. We should be able to claim civilised streets as a right, not something we can have only when it is acceptable to Toad.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
1942alexander
Posts: 288
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 8:11pm
Location: Lancashire (summer), Tenerife (winter)

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by 1942alexander »

It seems ironic to me that the people who are most aggressively vocal about the lady who drove at a speed she thought was safe in an arbitrary 20mph limit now are revealing their refusal to accept, and sabotage, another arbitrary decision, the timing of pedestrian crossing. That is completely hypocritical."Cyril Haearn" seems to have set himself up as judge, jury and executioner. He seems to be at war with motorized forms of transport, which includes me, and many other cyclists on this site. Regrettably the more hassle cyclists give to motorists, the more hassle they are going to dish out to us on bikes, and there's only one winner in that confrontation. As one with a foot in both camps, I do my best not to antagonize the other road users which could hurt or kill me. We have got to co-exist on our roads and antagonizing the hell out of motorists will not make things easy.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by pwa »

1942alexander wrote:It seems ironic to me that the people who are most aggressively vocal about the lady who drove at a speed she thought was safe in an arbitrary 20mph limit now are revealing their refusal to accept, and sabotage, another arbitrary decision, the timing of pedestrian crossing. That is completely hypocritical."Cyril Haearn" seems to have set himself up as judge, jury and executioner. He seems to be at war with motorized forms of transport, which includes me, and many other cyclists on this site. Regrettably the more hassle cyclists give to motorists, the more hassle they are going to dish out to us on bikes, and there's only one winner in that confrontation. As one with a foot in both camps, I do my best not to antagonize the other road users which could hurt or kill me. We have got to co-exist on our roads and antagonizing the hell out of motorists will not make things easy.


Yep. I'm siding with the grown ups on this.
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