Excuses excuses

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 Apr 2018, 4:37am

Cugel (and others)
Please suggest alternative action
What law might I be breaking?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 Apr 2018, 4:52am

1942alexander wrote:It seems ironic to me that the people who are most aggressively vocal about the lady who drove at a speed she thought was safe in an arbitrary 20mph limit now are revealing their refusal to accept, and sabotage, another arbitrary decision, the timing of pedestrian crossing. That is completely hypocritical."Cyril Haearn" seems to have set himself up as judge, jury and executioner. He seems to be at war with motorized forms of transport, which includes me, and many other cyclists on this site. Regrettably the more hassle cyclists give to motorists, the more hassle they are going to dish out to us on bikes, and there's only one winner in that confrontation. As one with a foot in both camps, I do my best not to antagonize the other road users which could hurt or kill me. We have got to co-exist on our roads and antagonizing the hell out of motorists will not make things easy.

'executioner' is not the right word, I am the opposite, I am trying to stop executions!
Most motons are looking ahead, I am rarely noticed
I wonder how many apply the handbrake and engage neutral while waiting at the lights, any observations?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

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Patrickpioneer
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Patrickpioneer » 24 Apr 2018, 6:24am

Near me is a school with a 20 mph limit on the road past it, speed bumps the lot and as its at the bottom of a hill I am usually doing 18mph on my bike there and the number of cars that pass me is a lot, past a school! There was a survey not too long ago that showed most people think its OK to speed. Its sadly human nature to do what others do and get away with, learn't behavior, and when a few are caught the excuses come out.

thirdcrank
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Apr 2018, 7:27am

I've been asked by PM to quote any offence which might be committed by somebody stopping traffic at a light-controlled pedestrian crossing when not intending to cross. Subject to having the evidence of intent, I think it's covered by the HIghways Act 1980. This section and its predecessors had a power of arrest, which was preserved in the general arrest conditions of PACE and subsequent enactments.

137 Penalty for wilful obstruction.

(1) If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/137

IIRC we did have a thread a few years ago where the residents in a (West Country?) village organised a demo doing just this but I cannot remember the result and I cannot find the thread. The case I'm thinking of may have involved a group of people using a zebra crossing in such a way that there were always pedestrians on it. I believe there have been changes after an appeal to Europe based on the human right to peaceful demonstration.

Flinders
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Flinders » 24 Apr 2018, 9:01am

1942alexander wrote:.......................
This lady drove at 26mph in a 20mph zone. She lawfully could have driven at 20mph in snow or ice which would have been much more dangerous ....

Nope. You can be done for dangerous driving even if you are under the speed limit if conditions mean you ought to be going slower. Ice would be one such.

Flinders
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Flinders » 24 Apr 2018, 9:05am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
1942alexander wrote:It seems ironic to me that the people who are most aggressively vocal about the lady who drove at a speed she thought was safe in an arbitrary 20mph limit now are revealing their refusal to accept, and sabotage, another arbitrary decision, the timing of pedestrian crossing. That is completely hypocritical."Cyril Haearn" seems to have set himself up as judge, jury and executioner. He seems to be at war with motorized forms of transport, which includes me, and many other cyclists on this site. Regrettably the more hassle cyclists give to motorists, the more hassle they are going to dish out to us on bikes, and there's only one winner in that confrontation. As one with a foot in both camps, I do my best not to antagonize the other road users which could hurt or kill me. We have got to co-exist on our roads and antagonizing the hell out of motorists will not make things easy.

'executioner' is not the right word, I am the opposite, I am trying to stop executions!
Most motons are looking ahead, I am rarely noticed
I wonder how many apply the handbrake and engage neutral while waiting at the lights, any observations?

I do. That's what I was taught to do. These things are just habit, if you get into the habit because your teacher insists on it always, it's easy to do it, you just do it automatically. I was lucky I had a good teacher. Given the way I see some single drivers in driving school cars drive sometimes, I'm grateful I had a good one. :wink:

Flinders
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Flinders » 24 Apr 2018, 9:07am

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:When maneuvering in a car park I just use tho clutch, do not touch the throttle, only in first or reverse, that keeps the speed down
One should avoid reversing as much as possible, is that in the HC?

One should reverse into parking spaces wherever possible in order to be able to drive out forwards and thereby minimise risk.

Where a friend works, in their company car park that's the rule. Personally I don't think it always is safer. I know some car parks where I choose to reverse out because the layout/visibility is better.

1942alexander
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby 1942alexander » 24 Apr 2018, 12:39pm

Flinders wrote:
1942alexander wrote:.......................
This lady drove at 26mph in a 20mph zone. She lawfully could have driven at 20mph in snow or ice which would have been much more dangerous ....

Nope. You can be done for dangerous driving even if you are under the speed limit if conditions mean you ought to be going slower. Ice would be one such.


The point was that she couldn't be done for speeding in that situation. The dangerous driving charge would be very hard to prove without an accident.
Alex

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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Vorpal » 24 Apr 2018, 3:32pm

thirdcrank wrote:IIRC we did have a thread a few years ago where the residents in a (West Country?) village organised a demo doing just this but I cannot remember the result and I cannot find the thread. The case I'm thinking of may have involved a group of people using a zebra crossing in such a way that there were always pedestrians on it. I believe there have been changes after an appeal to Europe based on the human right to peaceful demonstration.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37134
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby tykeboy2003 » 24 Apr 2018, 3:51pm

Username wrote:and someone being a ****in jobsworth in my book. The difference between 20 and 26 is small. Its significant only in percentage, not actual. The difference between 2000 and 2600 is actually big. Anyway this woman will likely be more focused on her speedo than on her surroundings.

The thing with speeding is to drive at a speed that is safe. The safe speed will vary substantially depending on weather, surface, surrounding activity and size/weight of your vehicle. I dont think safety can, or should be quantified so specifically. Rather a speed limit should be the maximum for which you cannot be prosecuted, not a thing for which you WILL be prosecuted if caught exceeding it. The logic hear being that if circumstances are favourable for faster driving, then the law should let you be.


Complete rubbish. It's the law. You might not agree with the law but you MUST obey it. If you want to change the law, then seek election and subsequently introduce a Parliamentary Bill. If you can't do that then shut up and obey the law.

Simple.

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Cugel
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Cugel » 24 Apr 2018, 7:40pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Cugel wrote:
I agree absolutely. However ...

Does one fight a bad act with another? Me mam said, "Two wrongs don't make a right" so perhaps I am unable to break this early conditioning. Rule of Law is the solution to getting the law obeyed, surely.

Well, alright ... pressing the crossing button as a Toad-pestering action is not illegal. Yet the attitude informing it is approaching that line where one steps into the territory in which illegal countermeasures are made agin' them as are already doing illegal things (like speeding). Before long there are knife fights in the street or even explosions!

In all events, Toad will find ways to react vehemently against those he suspects are delaying him. Or against a surrogate, such as my cat trying to cross the road; or perhaps those damned (literally) children daring (in time dishonoured fashion) to play in the street. Your button-jam may become a contributory factor to such a sad event, as it tweaks Toad's aggression-volume knob up a notch or two.

Listen out for not just a poop-poop but a POOP-POOP-POOP. It may be the last thing your hear.

Cugel


Are you saying that it is unwise to provoke Toad? I don't think we should have to tiptoe around his arrogance and not upset him. We should be able to claim civilised streets as a right, not something we can have only when it is acceptable to Toad.


It is unwise to provoke Toad. He does not bother with right & wrong, nor duty, nor justice - only with his pressing need to press on the accelerator pedal.

"I don't think we should....", you cry. Alas, the world is full of things that oughtn't to be but are. Of course, you may confront Toad in his 2 tons of thrusting metal whilst proclaiming your right not to be knocked over whilst cycling lawfully along in Toad's way. This "right" will not resurrect you after they have taken you to the morgue, nor mend your bones & flesh should Toad have struck you but a glancing blow.

In short, reality trumps should-be land, which is unfortunately often extant only in our fond imaginings.

Not to say we can't hope for improvements, perhaps via a pester of the rozzer & beak to do their duty. The Great Car Owning Democracy would likely sack them, though, should they oblige us.

Cugel, probably a softlad

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Cugel
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Cugel » 24 Apr 2018, 7:44pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Cugel (and others)
Please suggest alternative action
What law might I be breaking?

The law which advises, "Don't escalate confrontations with loons who may become lethal".

Alternative actions - campaign, perhaps via Cycling UK. Avoid Toad in the hope that he self-destructs in a vast carmegeddon Toad orgy of crashing tin chariots. Show Toad how to behave with a good example, including an enlightened forgiveness for eejit drivers as you demonstrate how it should be done. :-)

Cugel

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Cugel
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Cugel » 24 Apr 2018, 7:47pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
1942alexander wrote:It seems ironic to me that the people who are most aggressively vocal about the lady who drove at a speed she thought was safe in an arbitrary 20mph limit now are revealing their refusal to accept, and sabotage, another arbitrary decision, the timing of pedestrian crossing. That is completely hypocritical."Cyril Haearn" seems to have set himself up as judge, jury and executioner. He seems to be at war with motorized forms of transport, which includes me, and many other cyclists on this site. Regrettably the more hassle cyclists give to motorists, the more hassle they are going to dish out to us on bikes, and there's only one winner in that confrontation. As one with a foot in both camps, I do my best not to antagonize the other road users which could hurt or kill me. We have got to co-exist on our roads and antagonizing the hell out of motorists will not make things easy.

'executioner' is not the right word, I am the opposite, I am trying to stop executions!
Most motons are looking ahead, I am rarely noticed
I wonder how many apply the handbrake and engage neutral while waiting at the lights, any observations?

I do, I do, me sir! Also, I turn off the engine. And I don't stand on the brake pedal, so that the fellow behind avoids going blind from redglare.

Cugel, a good boy.

Tizme
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby Tizme » 24 Apr 2018, 8:37pm

I wonder how many apply the handbrake and engage neutral while waiting at the lights, any observations?


Like the old joke, how can you tell the lights have changed? The car in front rolls back :)

MikeF
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Re: Excuses excuses

Postby MikeF » 24 Apr 2018, 11:33pm

661-Pete wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
MikeF wrote:But it's not just speeding "People caught speeding can pay to attend a driver awareness course instead of having points added to their licence, but Ms Allan said she did not have this option as she was recently caught driving through a red light."


Sorry, mate, I didn't see that bit. :oops:
She might have taken the Driver Awareness course after her RLJ episode. You can only take such a course once. But of course, RLJing is another thing that "everyone does". No - wait. Only cyclists - every one of them - RLJ. Don't we? :twisted:

Let this woman be put face-to-face with someone who's lost a loved one to a speeding motorist. Just let that happen!
Incidentally, in my car I have no difficulty sticking to a 20mph (or 30Km/h on the Continent). I simply drop to third gear (out of 5) and the car naturally cruises along at that speed. In an automatic you'll probably have to put it in one of the 'lock' settings.
But that's so difficult. :roll: :roll:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master