Excuses excuses

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Cugel wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I shall certainly not stop doing it

The chance of being caught and punished is comparable to the chance of being caught speeding
I could become a martyr and get some good publicity, might have to pay a pocket-money fine, just like a killer driver

A policeperson once spoke to me about it, can't remember what he said :wink:

No charges were brought

No I will not stop!

BTW as we know, modern vehicles are smarter than drivers, they switch their engines off at the lights, so the objection about increased fuel consumption is invalid
Just hope the drivers get caught by the safety camera 400m further


You are a very naughty boy and so I have asked WPC 49 to call at your house to give you a box around the ears or some similar admonishment (not that sort of admonishment, although she will be in her uniform).

May I suggest an alternative for assuaging your angst about Toad? One may lie awake in the morning time after just waking up, composing imaginary retributive punishments for Toad of an almost medieval kind. As these are but fleeting mental indulgences, Toad is not actually hurt but you may feel better nevertheless.

Just be careful not to confuse these queer half-dreams with any sort of real world solution to all the Toadying out there!

Cugel

WPC beat you to it, she left me some homemade cakes today
I often have my best thoughts early
'The brain is a wonderful organ, it starts working when one gets up in the morning. And doesn't stop until one gets to work'

Seems to me everyone here bleats about traffic crime but almost no-one can be bothered doing anything about it

What are you doing to fight 'motoring offences' Cugel?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Tangled Metal »

Not my job so I don't do anything. Why do you think it's your place to take action?

Look to your own actions and ask what do you do against the law? I bet you're not completely above fracturing a few laws and regulations at times. If you must do something then try to campaign for enforcement by police. Even if it's futile it's still a positive action unlike button pressing in a highways version of knocking on doors and running away.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by thirdcrank »

Before anybody asks, knocking on a door and running away may amount an offence under s28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847.

NB Points to prove for all these offences are obstruction, annoyance or danger of residents or passengers (ie passers by.)

28 Penalty on persons committing any of the offences herein named.
Every person who in any street, to the obstruction, annoyance, or danger of the residents or passengers, commits any of the following offences, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding [F16level 3 on the standard scale] for each offence, or, in the discretion of the justice before whom he is convicted, may be committed to prison, there to remain for a period not exceeding fourteen days, [F17 . . . F18; (that is to say,)]
[F19Every person who exposes for show, hire, or sale (except in a market or market place or fair lawfully appointed for that purpose) any horse or other animal, or exhibits in a caravan or otherwise any show or public entertainment, or shoes, bleeds, or farries any horse or animal (except in cases of accident), or cleans, dresses, exercises, trains or breaks, or turns loose any horse or animal, or makes or repairs any part of any cart or carriage (except in cases of accident where repair on the spot is necessary):]
Every person who suffers to be at large any unmuzzled ferocious dog, or sets on or urges any dog or other animal to attack, worry, or put in fear any person or animal:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F20
[F21Every person who slaughters or dresses any cattle, or any part thereof, except in the case of any cattle over-driven which may have met with any accident, and which for the public safety or other reasonable cause ought to be killed on the spot:]
[F22Every person having the care of any waggon, cart, or carriage who rides on the shafts thereof, or who without having reins, and holding the same, rides upon such waggon, cart, or carriage, or on any animal drawing the same, or who is at such a distance from such waggon, cart, or carriage as not to have due control over every animal drawing the same, or who does not, in meeting any other carriage, keep his waggon, cart, or carriage to the left or near side, or who in passing any other carriage does not keep his waggon, cart, or carriage on the right or off side of the road (except in cases of actual necessity, or some sufficient reason for deviation) or who, by obstructing the street, wilfully prevents any person or carriage from passing him, or any waggon, cart, or carriage under his care:]
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F23
Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle:
[F24Every person who causes any public carriage, sledge, truck, or barrow, with or without horses, or any beast of burden, to stand longer than is necessary for loading or unloading goods, or for taking up or setting down passengers (except hackney carriages, and horses and other beasts of draught or burthen, standing for hire in any place appointed for that purpose by the commissioners or other lawful authority), and every person who, by means of any cart, carriage, sledge, truck, or barrow, or any animal, or other means, wilfully interrupts any public crossing, or wilfully causes any obstruction in any public footpath or other public thoroughfare:]
[F25Every person who causes any tree or timber or iron beam to be drawn in or upon any carriage, without having sufficient means of safely guiding the same:]
[F26Every person who leads or rides any horse or other animal, or draws or drives any cart or carriage, sledge, truck, or barrow upon any footway of any street, or fastens any horse or other animal so that it stands across or upon any footway:]
[F27Every person who places or leaves any furniture, goods, wares, or merchandize, or any cask, tub, basket, pail, or bucket, or places or uses any standing-place, stool, bench, stall, or showboard on any footway, or who places any blind, shade, covering, awning, or other projection over or along any such footway, unless such blind, shade, covering, awning, or other projection is eight feet in height at least in every part thereof from the ground:]
[F28Every person who places, hangs up, or otherwise exposes to sale any goods, wares, merchandize, matter, or thing whatsoever, so that the same project into or over any footway, or beyond the line of any house, shop, or building at which the same are so exposed, so as to obstruct or incommode the passage of any person over or along such footway:]
[F29Every person who rolls or carries any cask, tub, hoop, or wheel, or any ladder, plank, pole, timber, or log of wood, upon any footway, except for the purpose of loading or unloading any cart or carriage, or of crossing the footway:]
[F30Every person who places any line, cord, or pole across any street, or hangs or places any clothes thereon:]
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F31
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F32
[F33Every person who publicly offers for sale or distribution, or exhibits to public view any profane, . . . F34 book, paper, print, drawing, painting, or representation, or sings any profane or obscene song or ballad, or uses any profane or obscene language:]
Every person who wantonly discharges any firearm, or throws or discharges any stone or other missile, or makes any bonfire, or throws or sets fire to any firework:
[F35Every person who wilfully and wantonly disturbs any inhabitant, by pulling or ringing any door bell, or knocking at any door, or who wilfully and unlawfully extinguishes the light of any lamp:]
[F36Every person who flies any kite, or who makes or uses any slide upon ice or snow:]
[F37Every person who cleanses, hoops, fires, washes, or scalds any cask or tub, or hews, saws, bores, or cuts any timber or stone, or slacks, sifts, or screens any lime:]
[F38Every person who throws or lays down any stones, coals, slate, shells, lime, bricks, timber, iron, or other materials (except building materials so inclosed as to prevent mischief to passengers):]
[F39Every person who beats or shakes any carpet, rug, or mat (except door mats, beaten or shaken before the hour of eight in the morning):]
[F40Every person who fixes or places any flower-pot or box, or other heavy article, in any upper window, without sufficiently guarding the same against being blown down:]
[F41Every person who throws from the roof or any part of any house or other building any slate, brick, wood, rubbish, or other thing, except snow thrown so as not to fall on any passenger:]
[F42Every occupier of any house or other building or other person who orders or permits any person in his service to stand on the sill of any window, in order to clean, paint, or perform any other operation upon the outside of such window, or upon any house or other building within the said limits, unless such window be in the sunk or basement story:]
[F43Every person who leaves open any vault or cellar, or the entrance from any street to any cellar or room underground, without a sufficient fence or handrail, or leaves defective the door, window, or other covering of any vault or cellar, or who does not sufficiently fence any area, pit, or sewer left open, or who leaves such open area, pit, or sewer without a sufficient light after sunset to warn and prevent persons from falling thereinto:]
[F44Every person who throws or lays any dirt, litter, or ashes, or nightsoil, or any carrion, fish, offal, or rubbish, on any street, or causes any offensive matter to run from any manufactory, brewery, slaughter-house, butcher’s shop, or dunghill into any street: Provided always, that it shall not be deemed an offence to lay sand or other materials in any street in time of frost, to prevent accidents, or litter or other suitable materials to prevent the freezing of water in pipes, or in case of sickness to prevent noise, if the party laying any such things causes them to be removed as soon as the occasion for them ceases:]
[F45Every person who keeps any pigstye to the front of any street, not being shut out from such street by a sufficient wall or fence, or who keeps any swine in or near any street, so as to be a common nuisance.]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89
:wink:
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Tangled Metal wrote:Not my job so I don't do anything. Why do you think it's your place to take action?

Look to your own actions and ask what do you do against the law? I bet you're not completely above fracturing a few laws and regulations at times. If you must do something then try to campaign for enforcement by police. Even if it's futile it's still a positive action unlike button pressing in a highways version of knocking on doors and running away.

I take action because the cops do nothing and I believe I and others will benefit as described above

As described many times here, the cops have just about no interest in enforcing traffic law

My non-violent direct action is the best we can do and could be likened to the actions of others who achieved change, the suffragettes or the demonstrators in Berlin 1989 maybe

I just need more helpers
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Tangled Metal
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Tangled Metal »

I'm not sure you can say the police don't want to enforce traffic laws. I suspect they just do their job as best they can with available resources. It's unfair to put it lack of traffic resources on them.

If there was evidence for it I think TC has said there's an offence there. Plus it's indiscriminate. Are you stopping traffic law violators or everyone?

Good examples of direct action are those who stand out with a speed camera and banners actively trying to educate motorists IMHO. You're giving punishment without explanation or education. What point other than mischief is made?

However it's your choice. I think you're wrong but that is my opinion and I doubt you'll change yours. However you strike me as a person with good motives, intelligence and a sense of fairness. So I'll ask you if there is not something more productive you could do? Or perhaps you do and this is just an opportunistic thing you do. A little extra.
pwa
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by pwa »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Not my job so I don't do anything. Why do you think it's your place to take action?

Look to your own actions and ask what do you do against the law? I bet you're not completely above fracturing a few laws and regulations at times. If you must do something then try to campaign for enforcement by police. Even if it's futile it's still a positive action unlike button pressing in a highways version of knocking on doors and running away.

I take action because the cops do nothing and I believe I and others will benefit as described above

As described many times here, the cops have just about no interest in enforcing traffic law

My non-violent direct action is the best we can do and could be likened to the actions of others who achieved change, the suffragettes or the demonstrators in Berlin 1989 maybe

I just need more helpers


If enough people did what you do it would get noticed, and then everyone else on a bike would suffer the repercussions.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Tangled Metal »

He's doing it when passing by not necessarily identifiable as a cyclist and even then he's not making his motives clear. Even if enough people did that to get noticed it would likely just be seen as mischievous action not a protest aimed at change. Unless he's there with banner explaining his protest action.

IMHO change isn't possible of there's only direct action b without explanation of that action or education of the issues that led to that protest action.
Vorpal
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Vorpal »

pwa wrote:If enough people did what you do it would get noticed, and then everyone else on a bike would suffer the repercussions.

Just like motorists do for speeding. :lol: :lol:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Cugel
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cugel »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Cugel wrote:
You are a very naughty boy and so I have asked WPC 49 to call at your house to give you a box around the ears or some similar admonishment (not that sort of admonishment, although she will be in her uniform).

May I suggest an alternative for assuaging your angst about Toad? One may lie awake in the morning time after just waking up, composing imaginary retributive punishments for Toad of an almost medieval kind. As these are but fleeting mental indulgences, Toad is not actually hurt but you may feel better nevertheless.

Just be careful not to confuse these queer half-dreams with any sort of real world solution to all the Toadying out there!

Cugel

WPC beat you to it, she left me some homemade cakes today
I often have my best thoughts early
'The brain is a wonderful organ, it starts working when one gets up in the morning. And doesn't stop until one gets to work'

Seems to me everyone here bleats about traffic crime but almost no-one can be bothered doing anything about it

What are you doing to fight 'motoring offences' Cugel?


Yes, have a calming cake. I myself am currently eating dark chocolate of 87% choc content, although this can make me over-excited.

All my thoughts are "best" by definition. :-) What is this "work" you mention? I have a vague recollection, rather like a bad dream.....

I have several schemes for dealing with traffic crime:

* Become dictator and ban the evil stinking metal chariots altogether. I'm hoping my wife will be able to arrange my dictatorship as I am too nice to cause a revolution.

* Give dark looks to the wassocks tearing through our village at 36mph rather than the mandatory 20mph. See them quail with remorse! Sadly, they go a bit faster, to quickly escape by admonishing frown. :-)

* Develop a piece of software that can disseminate rays of car-computer malfunction stuff, so that they all grind to a halt forever. (I read that one in an SF novel about invading alien crabs).

* Recruit some anti-car zealots then Svengali them into going 'round each night to let down the tyres of as many tin merkins as they can, inclusive of superglue in the valves. Hopefully I can't be done myself for the Svengali stuff. I imagine you will want to volunteer for that one. Look into my eyes.....

Cugel, too soft & nice to be a vigilante, even with a little crossing-button.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

I took the WPCs cakes to work to share with my colleagues, the Toad Work (Larkin) is still sitting on my back but I work on the edge of town, at lunchtime I go out to watch the trains
Just collected a heavy packet from the PO (I have a birthday soon) from a female Corris-pondent, I suspect it contains home-made bread with 50% hazelnuts :D

Just ordered some Dresdner Stollen too
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
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brooksby
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by brooksby »

Vorpal wrote:
pwa wrote:If enough people did what you do it would get noticed, and then everyone else on a bike would suffer the repercussions.

Just like motorists do for speeding. :lol: :lol:


But if Cyril Haearn is doing this, aren't they on foot at the time? Therefore, surely its the pedestrians who would get in trouble ("you bl00dy pedestrians, you're all the same!")...
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

I shall be in action tomorrow on a street where buses exceed the maximum 30 kmh allowed, sprinting out of town to the next light, bus-stop, roundabout....
My plan is to delay many buses, and other vehicles of course. The times buses actually take are recorded and used to modify the timetables
I hope to get an extra minute put into the standard times, many bus lines use this road
So they will be under less pressure to drive sportily :?

I do not cycle in town, it is a place to walk
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Not my job so I don't do anything. Why do you think it's your place to take action?

Look to your own actions and ask what do you do against the law? I bet you're not completely above fracturing a few laws and regulations at times. If you must do something then try to campaign for enforcement by police. Even if it's futile it's still a positive action unlike button pressing in a highways version of knocking on doors and running away.

I take action because the cops do nothing and I believe I and others will benefit as described above

As described many times here, the cops have just about no interest in enforcing traffic law

My non-violent direct action is the best we can do and could be likened to the actions of others who achieved change, the suffragettes or the demonstrators in Berlin 1989 maybe

I just need more helpers


If enough people did what you do it would get noticed, and then everyone else on a bike would suffer the repercussions.

A small wrong to fight a big one
The manager of the local buses said she thought it ok for bus drivers to exceed the maximum speed limit so I am concentrating on a street where the buses sprint out of town, hoping to get one minute added to the standard times as described above
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Bonefishblues
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Bonefishblues »

Cyril Haearn wrote:A small wrong to fight a big one
The manager of the local buses said she thought it ok for bus drivers to exceed the maximum speed limit so I am concentrating on a street where the buses sprint out of town, hoping to get one minute added to the standard times as described above

The manager who said this "more than 10 years ago" according to your "Two wrongs..." thread?
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Excuses excuses

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:A small wrong to fight a big one
The manager of the local buses said she thought it ok for bus drivers to exceed the maximum speed limit so I am concentrating on a street where the buses sprint out of town, hoping to get one minute added to the standard times as described above

The manager who said this "more than 10 years ago" according to your "Two wrongs..." thread?

So what?

Bus drivers routinely go too fast
In the street where I will be in action tomorrow there are two crossings 200 m apart
My accomplice at the other one and I will slow the b*****s down alright, make them stop twice
Here a small wrong is certainly justified to stop many big ones :)
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
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