Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

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landsurfer
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Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by landsurfer »

I have been reading lots on the interweb about Gravel / Adventure (G/A) bikes.
lots and lots.
Especially on .. http://off.road.cc/content/review/bikes ... eview-1749
Is this just another "Emperors New Clothes" pile of cvap from the marketing dept do you think ?
These G/A bikes seem to resemble the bikes i rode on "rough stuff" trips in the 70's and 80's.
In fact my lifebike seems to resemble one .... SPA Steel Touring ....
And is ridden off road, up hill and down dale at every opportunity.

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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by PH »

Nice bike, but haven't we just done this
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=121376
To quote myself from that thread
For example, have a look at Spa Cycle's website, the differences between the Elan and Tourer should be obvious, and whatever you think of the folk at Spa they're not usually accused of being slaves to fashion. I'm not saying you can't ride nearly any bike nearly anywhere, but if your luggage is minimal and you want something more road bike like, which also has some off road capability, these seem like a good choice

I like to ride my bikes, I don't feel any need to compare them to anyone else's I just hope they enjoy theirs as much.
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horizon
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by horizon »

I got the impression that gravel riding took off in America over the last few years as a sort of alternative to either downhill mountain biking or road (tarmac) riding. I think that's great and there are probably other parts of the world too, Australia for example, where you can do a proper ride but without the tarmac and traffic. I like unsurfaced (at least not asphalt) roads, rather as they used to be before WW1. I think it's really OK if it called in a few ideas to tweak the bikes for this and in the US that would mean gravel bike. AIUI gravel road is the term applied to non-tarmacked roads but which are properly made. So this means a real road not just a rough track (which makes gravel different from "off-road").

The two "objections" I have to the term gravel bike are that we might, as the OP points out, just be reinventing the cross bike (actually rather than the touring bike in fact). And I suppose I do find it irritating that people in the UK rather uncritically adopt the term gravel bike. It also leaves out of the equation expedition bikes, mountain bikes and rugged tourers, all of which are used to ride this sort of road.

One reason for my doubt about uncritical adoption of the term is that AFAIK we don't really have any gravel roads in the UK - they've all been tarmacked a long time ago. We do have some long distance bridleways, canal paths, railway paths, farm tracks and indeed some minor roads that could do with resurfacing; the South Downs Way and the Ridgeway also come to mind and there must be more. But the last time I went on a true gravel road on a bike was in Cabo de Gata in Spain.

So given that there is a lot of interest in finding and using paths and tracks for touring despite the lack of "gravel roads", I'm wondering if we really are seeing the emergence of a new sector or if the aficionados are going to be disappointed. I expect gravel bikes will also help commuters but I would be interested in views as to how much the UK can really offer in terms of fast, long distance off-road.

Maybe the real problem with all this is that we have never really found a term to properly describe the touring bike. All the adventure, gravel and cross bikes seem to be varieties of the touring bike (and do usefully improve it IMV) but touring isn't the best name.
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Si
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by Si »

Ive just bought a gravel bike. Reasons for buying: the geometry is much better for me than the average road or cross bike, the brakes are better, and i want something that can easily take light to moderate off road in its stride but still be good on the road. Took it down my local gravel and dirt tracks snd compared to my tourer it went much better. On the road it also feels more responsive than my tourer,and much much better than an mtb.

Whether its called a gravel bike or not, i dont really care. What i do care about is that it does what i want it to.

Gravel biking seems to be a lot like mtbing in the late 80s/early 90s. People are picking up OS maps again and finding new routes rather than flocking to the trail centres. Dare i say it, its getting a new generation into touring without them realising it! :lol:
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I like the term adventure bike because the bike is a tool for transport that can transform any journey into an adventure. All bikes are adventure bikes. (Yes, I've said this before, but then as PH says, we've "Just done this.") Gravel, okay, we don't have many gravel roads in Britain - they tend to be either roads with tarmac or tracks with mud and/or stones - but bikes are an international market and many countries, including in Europe, do have genuine gravel roads.

I don't think it's a reinvention of the 'cross bike, which after all is at heart a road bike raced round a muddy field, more an adaptation of or reinvention of tourers. Yes, even a repackaging by marketing people. Good for the marketroids in this case; they're getting bums on touring saddles!
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horizon
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by horizon »

Si wrote:I've just bought a gravel bike.


Can we know which one? :)

And no, I don't think you were taken in by the marketing hype (well, not really :wink: .)
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steady eddy
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by steady eddy »

Aren't they just Audax bikes with knobbly tyres?
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by PH »

steady eddy wrote:Aren't they just Audax bikes with knobbly tyres?

Maybe, but that won't fit on the top tube.
But then what's an Audax bike?
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Si
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by Si »

horizon wrote:
Si wrote:I've just bought a gravel bike.


Can we know which one? :)

And no, I don't think you were taken in by the marketing hype (well, not really :wink: .)


this one....

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3832&start=1510
pwa
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by pwa »

landsurfer wrote:I have been reading lots on the interweb about Gravel / Adventure (G/A) bikes.
lots and lots.
Especially on .. http://off.road.cc/content/review/bikes ... eview-1749
Is this just another "Emperors New Clothes" pile of cvap from the marketing dept do you think ?
These G/A bikes seem to resemble the bikes i rode on "rough stuff" trips in the 70's and 80's.
In fact my lifebike seems to resemble one .... SPA Steel Touring ....
And is ridden off road, up hill and down dale at every opportunity.

image1.jpeg


Your bike does resemble a gravel / adventure bike, except that yours has cantis instead of discs. But in terms of function they are about the same. They are both close to what most of us require most of the time. More comfy than a road race bike, capable of taking on a bit of rough ground, but fairly swift on good tarmac (with the right tyres). Practical, enjoyable bikes. There is nothing new in the desire for this sort of bike, but we should celebrate the fact that something more practical than road race / sportive bikes is available with drop bars.
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Steel, incidentally, seems quite a popular frame material for this sort of bike and not just from niche manufacturers like Spa; for instance the Specialized AWOL and Sequoia, Marin Four Corners, and others.
reohn2
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by reohn2 »

My 2d's worth.
Gravel riding/racing began as Horizon says in the USA,Google Dirty Kanza(it's a safe Google trust me).
Gravel bikes are a bit niche,slack angles with slow steering like tourers,that 'ride themselves and don't need much input when the rider is dog tired.
Lower BB so dabbing a foot is a little easier ,compact frame to save the family jewels should you slip off the saddle.
Long headtube to get the 'bars higher without too many spacers under the stem.
Big tyre clearances usually upto 42mm.
Usually disc brakes to handle harsher riding conditions and better braking in the wet,and which also help with the tyre clearances.
Mine's a Salsa Vaya(one of the first gravel specific bikes) which rides quickish on tarmac but excels on unsurfaced roads and tracks,it also has all the brazeons for racks mudguards and three bottle cages.
Some tourers are close to it's spec,but tend to miss out on one or more ingredients.

Cross bikes are definitely not gravel bikes,they're very specialist machines made for hour long rides at eyeballs out racing speed with high level toptube for shouldering the bike on steep accents on purpose made courses.

I bought my Vaya as a frameset after a lot of research and some two years of testing and trying 38mm+ tyres,it's ridden with the venerable 40mm Hypers mostly with a spare pair of wheels shod with 40mm Lancruisers for the real mucky stuff,I want for nothing else(other than my all out MTB for the real muck),it's the default do all machine that does everything I ask of it :D
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PH
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by PH »

reohn2 wrote:Gravel riding/racing began as Horizon says in the USA

I'm not sure the name has any real relevance, it's just a handy tag, there's plenty of Audax bikes that have never Audaxed, tourers that haven't toured, race bikes that don't, MTBs that never see a mountain...
There's some great bikes around at the moment, a better choice of bikes I'd be happy to have than at any time in the last couple of decades, it's almost a shame I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike...
reohn2
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by reohn2 »

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Gravel riding/racing began as Horizon says in the USA

I'm not sure the name has any real relevance, it's just a handy tag, there's plenty of Audax bikes that have never Audaxed, tourers that haven't toured, race bikes that don't, MTBs that never see a mountain...
There's some great bikes around at the moment, a better choice of bikes I'd be happy to have than at any time in the last couple of decades, it's almost a shame I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike...


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horizon
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Re: Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

Post by horizon »

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Gravel riding/racing began as Horizon says in the USA

I'm not sure the name has any real relevance, it's just a handy tag,


Well, it would be a shame to lose the connotation. It does (AFAIK) have a specific history and therefore a footnote (if not a small chapter) in cycling lore. Moreover, the US really does have gravel roads. I would love to cycle on these and I don't think a few miles of muddy bridleway does it for me.

I'm also wondering (since we're on the subject) why it took gravel riding to push touring bikes into this mode because that could have been a natural development for touring bikes anyway. And you are right, you don't need to do an Audax to appreciate the benefits of an Audax bike.

What I want is the name for a UK inspired "gravel" bike designed for UK conditions and possibilities - a "sustrans" bike perhaps? :mrgreen:
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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