Gravel / Adventure bikes, nothing new ?

[irc]

The Surly Long Haul trucker going back what? 15yrs? Longer? had the gravel touring capability ticked. Takes up to 700x45mm with mudguards, stable steering. I've done a few days on gravel roads as part of longer USA tours and my LHT was all I needed. Unless conditions were unusually soft or sandy I had no problems using standard touring tyres.

Edit - I've also got a Spa Steel Tourer. Good but not quite as good as the LHT on dirt roads. Can't take tyres as wide and steering not as stable, - important when the front hits a bit of loose surface.

[Si]

There are also loads of gravel roads in forestry across the country.......what we tend to call fire roads. These dont require an all out mtb for the most part, but some tourers , despite being able to handle most of it, will have to go slower and more carefully. ATEOTD most bikes can do most things if you compromisr enough, but the question is: how much do you want to compromise?

what about the venerable Dawes 1-Down/Sardar of yesteryear?

thats what i was comparing the gravel bike to in my initial review. The new gravel bike seemed more willing than my 1-down on the gravelly, sandy, rough farm roads i tried both on.

[mercalia]

"Gravel bike" is just another wheeze to sell bikes.The Mt bike type has been taken over by images of muscular and fit young things riding over wet moors and back of beyond places where calling the line of travel a "path" or "road" is taking the p ? "Gravel" bike is for those who want to cycle on clearly defined off road routes typically gravel that dont require lycra or special clothes or muscles and fitness. "Audax", "Touring bike", those terms dont mean much to Joe and Josephine Bloggs and "Hybrids" are just for commuting but no real cyclist wants one of them? they areonly fit for the plebs who dont really know what they want or are doing. Its all about IMAGE?

Not sure what your point is here? If the MTB has become more specialised for trackless riding, proper off-road, at the expense of efficiency/comfort/etc on bridleways etc, then that would seem to leave a gap for the road/off-road crossover, ie what's now being called gravel bike.

I was talking about IMAGES people associate with the name- types of various bikes so "ordinary people" dont have a clue what an audax bike is and mt bikes are associated with the various images I refer to. And hybrid bikes are general purpose dont-have- any particular-idea-in-mind bikes. Hence room for a new word for a bike that dont have the associations I mentioned

[horizon]

A bit more from Surly here:

https://surlybikes.com/blog/crushing_gravel_since_1976

[mercalia]

I would have thought a gravel rim braked bike would have ceramic or other coated rims so that the mud/dust you go thru dont wear the rims down so much?

[PH]

The Surly Long Haul trucker going back what? 15yrs? Longer? had the gravel touring capability ticked.

You're right, they did, though of course people were touring for decades before the LHT - Nice photos BTW
But if you weren't carrying all that luggage would you not want something less heavyweight? Even if not, is there some reason others shouldn't want it?
The question posed in this thread is "nothing new?"
In cycling - No nothing new, people have been riding bikes anywhere and everywhere since their invention.
In cycles - No, not revolutionary, but there have been developments that offer the popular characteristics of a road bike in something more versatile. It's notable that Spa are promoting their version not on it's Gravel capabilities, but on it's ability to put a smile on your face.
In cyclists - Yes, something completely new, the discovery* that you can ride on surfaces other than perfect Tarmac and that it can be something to seek out rather than cause for complaint.

* All discoveries are new, regardless of how many times they've been discovered before.

[mattsccm]

Skipping all the MTB ing in the 80's etc my gravel biking has been on the old railway lines in places like the Peak District and then here in the Forest of Dean. CX bikes, first canti braked and in 2010 disc have been my choice. I call it my rough stuff bike now that "gravel" has become a trendy term. Tried a few modern bikes and whilst very nice, some are a bit dull. I want a fast handling bike. But u ride on gravel. FC roads that are smooth enough to ride my carbon TT bike on with lots of care at 2 mph. The modern " gravel" bike would be better called a "roughstuff " bike going by the advertised use. Few seem to see many miles on actual gravel.
Their main advantage over a CX bike is tyre clearance if that's important and to me less rim wear. I was getting through a rim a year easily.
To me gravel riding, I do around 4000k miles a year , is in many ways a sub for road riding but the hazards are deer and boar not cars!

[Cunobelin]

Reminds me of the fashion (short lived) for RTBs (Road Terrain Bikes) in the early 80's

One of the promoters was Avon Valley Cycles with their Caribou range

This ad for a second hand one will give you an idea

[horizon]

Thinking about this a bit more over breakfast, I realised that what was I trying to say was that gravel bikes are meant to be fast but on rough surfaces. What people actually use them for in the UK AFAICS is the ability to use (slowly and carefully if necessary) a fast road bike on poor surfaces and then switch back to the road when it allows. I'm sure there are times when a turn of speed is possible on a rough track in the UK but not on the scale possible in the US.

[reohn2]

In reply to IRC's post,I think the LHT is a great do all bike and very similar to the Vaya in some ways but I prefer the compact design,and much longer head tube of the Vaya,though the Vaya can't handle the same loads the LHT can.
They're both great bikes IMO,but with slightly different though some overlapping uses.

[reohn2]

There are also loads of gravel roads in forestry across the country.......what we tend to call fire roads. These dont require an all out mtb for the most part, but some tourers , despite being able to handle most of it, will have to go slower and more carefully. ATEOTD most bikes can do most things if you compromisr enough, but the question is: how much do you want to compromise?

what about the venerable Dawes 1-Down/Sardar of yesteryear?

thats what i was comparing the gravel bike to in my initial review. The new gravel bike seemed more willing than my 1-down on the gravelly, sandy, rough farm roads i tried both on.

The 700c wheels have something to do with that IMO

[reohn2]

Thinking about this a bit more over breakfast, I realised that what was I trying to say was that gravel bikes are meant to be fast but on rough surfaces. What people actually use them for in the UK AFAICS is the ability to use (slowly and carefully if necessary) a fast road bike on poor surfaces and then switch back to the road when it allows. I'm sure there are times when a turn of speed is possible on a rough track in the UK but not on the scale possible in the US.

My initial reasons for looking for a "gravel bike" was discs and big rubber.I'd done my homework on the big rubber and knew at the time I could average mid to high teens on tarmac and could ride rough stuff with some care and ride forest roads fast on slicks,I was sold on discs with the Cannondale tandem we owned at the time.Looking at the Vaya's geometry and reading owners reviews I felt sure it fitted the bill
I didn't need the luggage capability like IRC's LHT in his photo's posted,though I wasn't too bothered about a particularly light bike didn't want CF or Alu and when built wasn't disappointed with the Vaya's 12kg with mudguards with nothing particularly light or weight weenie in the build.
I had a Thorn Audax MK2 with a full Ultegra group set,and XT hubs and medium weight wheels,which I liked a lot but after building the Vaya it remained practically unridden for two year and so was sold to a forum member.
Most forum members will know that I built a second Vaya with a similar build to the first but due to a change in family health issues sold on the forum as I knew it'd not get it's full use but from me, I won't mention the problems I had with the first buyer but the chap who eventually bought it was very pleased with his purchace.
I've kept the first one and I'm more than happy with it.
There are some very light gravel bikes about now which are specific and well under 10kg these bike are out and out gravel race bikes but they don't interest me as they don't have clearance for m/g's or luggage facilities,that's not to say they're bad bikes they fill a specific without too much overlap,whereas I like the versatility of the Vaya
My 2d's worth

[Si]

what about the venerable Dawes 1-Down/Sardar of yesteryear?

thats what i was comparing the gravel bike to in my initial review. The new gravel bike seemed more willing than my 1-down on the gravelly, sandy, rough farm roads i tried both on.

The 700c wheels have something to do with that IMO

quite so. Although it's also beeter than my 700c hybrid.

Thinking about it , the first time i saw wide spread gravel biking, even if it wasnt called that, was on the HONC afew yearsback when a load of people didnt bother with mtbs but used cx bikes instead. It is lightish offroad linked by lots of country lanes and the cx bikers seemed to do very well. Could have done it on a tourer if you'd changed the tyres, taken the guards off and wherent bothered about being able to stop on the big wet downhills.

Anyway, give it a couple of years and there wont be any more "gravel bikes", rather you'll have to choose from xc gravel, full sus gravel, all-gravel, adventure gravel, sportif gravel, singlespeed gravel, bikepacking gravel, etc etc bikes.

[RickH]

It's already starting to happen

"Do we need full suspension on gravel? Niner thinks so"

(I'd already thought that a drop bar, full sus bike could be the one thing that might lure me into n+1 again now I've kicked the flat bar habit! )

Like reohn2, I bought a gravel bike not too dissimilar to the Vaya (2016 Kona Sutra Ltd). Ostensibly it was a replacement for my old 1986 Muddy Fox Explorer. But it seems to have usurped my other drop bar bike (Kinesis Tk) which hasn't been used in over 12 months now.

[Bmblbzzz]

A bit more from Surly here:

https://surlybikes.com/blog/crushing_gravel_since_1976

The other bike I told them is the Pacer, my current "gravel" rig. It's my favorite bike to “crush gravel" on (mostly I’m crushing it, of course, because of my morbid obesity, and not because of my radness; as I’ve said before: I don’t get rad, I get home). The Pacer is perfect for me on gravel. It takes as bigger pair of tires (700c tires that actually measure 35mm or less are compliant) than any other “road” bike out there, and rides like a dream. All day geometry is all you need for pavement/gravel/fireroads/whereever. This bike is an explorer to be sure, because you can keep going. And also going.

A man after my own heart, or rather bike. Cept I can only get 28mm tyres on mine cos I live in rainy Britain and use mudguards.