Bikes on Trans Pennine Express (or not!)

[RickH]

There are changes afoot on Trans Pennine Express - you will have to reserve a bike space at least 24 hours in advance from 20th May according to this link!

No spontaneous bike trips on TPE routes then! Even the much-maligned Virgin West Coast can manage to do bike reservations up to (almost) departure time (On more than one occasion I've bought a ticket & got a bike reservation at the ticket office at Wigan North Western & the train has been pulling into the station by the time I've got up there).

[PH]

Not all bad news though - bike spaces increasing from 2 to 4 and bookable on their website.
Just how enforced the booking options will be has yet to be seen, I chanced it on a Virgin service from Derby to Sheffield last week, it was fine.

[mjr]

I chanced it on a Virgin service from Derby to Sheffield last week, it was fine.

Virgin don't serve that route currently, do they?

[foxyrider]

I chanced it on a Virgin service from Derby to Sheffield last week, it was fine.

Virgin don't serve that route currently, do they?

They do if they are wanting to get to Birmingham and beyond or vis a vis Newcastle

[PH]

I chanced it on a Virgin service from Derby to Sheffield last week, it was fine.

Virgin don't serve that route currently, do they?

You're right, my error, it was Cross Country.
The point remains that even where reservations are required they're not always checked.

[RickH]

I wonder how strict they will be in practice. If Virgin can do "instant" reservations it is only the incompetence of the TPE system that prevents them doing the same. If they are strict in some places it could leave you stranded for a day - for instance, Scarborough (being somewhere I've travelled home from by train in the recent past, albeit without a bike), seems to have very few non-TPE trains. The alternative would be having to find another line, within reasonable cycling distance, with more non-TPE services.

Virgin have got a lot more strict about having a reservation, except when there is timetable chaos for one reason or another - "emergency services dealing with an incident" (sadly that usually means a suicide & seems to be pretty much a weekly occurrence ) or infrastructure creaking at the seams (& sometimes breaking) being the main ones. But, as I said, they can do reservations for the next train, provided there is a space free. The only time I've found the Virgin reservations system to have problems is trying to get one for a train that should have already left but is running late & hasn't arrived yet!

[Annoying Twit]

The point remains that even where reservations are required they're not always checked.

Every time I've booked a bike space on a train, the guard has been completely unaware of it.

[atoz]

I use the Leeds-Manchester Piccadilly service between Dewsbury and Huddersfield, but not with the bike. It can be difficult just getting a seat. Generally bikes squeeze their way on, but given the level of congestion you've better of on the all stops Northen service for the same route.

First are a terrible company. I have all too much experience of them as a bus company. I think the reservation ploy is just that- to deter cyclists using the trains, that way they can either ban them or remove the space for them and put another seat there, or both.

It's a common tactic, if you want to drop a service, to make it difficult and/or unpleasant so you wouldn't use it anyway. I used to use a First bus service locally that they did this tactic with, and the eventual result that they dropped the service, but kept a useless Sunday service noone uses so noone else can tender for it.

A lot of the problems with Transpennine are the new units they bought a few years ago- the class 185's. They run in fixed sets, and if 2 sets are joined up, you can't walk through as the cabs don't have communicating doors to make 2 sets a through train. BR didn't by and large make this mistake when they bought the Sprinters- most class 150/1, 155, 156, and 158 can be run in mixed multiples and communicate throughout. No doubt the other new ones have the same problem. Typical useless privatised railway in the this country. Back in the 80's, this service was loco hauled- 5 coaches with integral buffet car and full guards space, no problem getting your bike on.Great for a tour of North Wales. I dread to think what you do now. It's the same problem with Virgin- you have to reserve in advance, and there's no guarantee that's good for the ticket you bought. I found this out last year when I visited my brother in deepest Suffolk, and needed to use the train down there, changing via Peterborough. Couldn't reserve the bike with the reasonably priced ticket. It was considerably cheaper to hire a bike when I got down there- an antique Viscount that fortunately proved quite decent, even though it must have been around 35-40 years old.

Basically, the train companies by and large hate cyclists because they lose bums on seats by accommodating them on their crap rolling stock. We are now in the position that to cycle tour in this country you have to drive to do it. As for commuting- a pathetic joke. Reminds me of the infamous "no blacks, no dogs" notices that black immigrants were faced with decades ago. That's about the level cyclists get treated now.

[mjr]

A lot of the problems with Transpennine are the new units they bought a few years ago- the class 185's. They run in fixed sets, and if 2 sets are joined up, you can't walk through as the cabs don't have communicating doors to make 2 sets a through train. BR didn't by and large make this mistake when they bought the Sprinters- most class 150/1, 155, 156, and 158 can be run in mixed multiples and communicate throughout. No doubt the other new ones have the same problem.

Not entirely. Many of the Electrostars (classes 375, 377, 379 and 387) have end gangways and can be connected up in a similar way, although sometimes it's not done for speed at intermediate splits/joins (Great Northern at Cambridge, for example). Now that I look, the class 185s are Desiros, most of which also have end gangways - but not the 185s or Greater Anglia's 360s, or any of the Desiro City subtype.

It does seem rather strange that it's not a general DfT requirement for rolling stock that usually operates non-reservable services to have gangway connections so the passenger load can be balanced without the stupid sight of people running along the platforms between sections at station stops.

[mjr]

Basically, the train companies by and large hate cyclists because they lose bums on seats by accommodating them on their crap rolling stock.

That's not necessarily true: with good design, bicycles can be put in spaces that are otherwise only used by non-paying large luggage, non-paying offside doors or seats that are empty outside of peak times.

[bigjim]

I use TPExpress from Manchester airport with the bike as far as Manchester Piccadill y. However I use my bus pass so booking is not possible. Should be fun.

[atoz]

A lot of the problems with Transpennine are the new units they bought a few years ago- the class 185's. They run in fixed sets, and if 2 sets are joined up, you can't walk through as the cabs don't have communicating doors to make 2 sets a through train. BR didn't by and large make this mistake when they bought the Sprinters- most class 150/1, 155, 156, and 158 can be run in mixed multiples and communicate throughout. No doubt the other new ones have the same problem.

Not entirely. Many of the Electrostars (classes 375, 377, 379 and 387) have end gangways and can be connected up in a similar way, although sometimes it's not done for speed at intermediate splits/joins (Great Northern at Cambridge, for example). Now that I look, the class 185s are Desiros, most of which also have end gangways - but not the 185s or Greater Anglia's 360s, or any of the Desiro City subtype.

It does seem rather strange that it's not a general DfT requirement for rolling stock that usually operates non-reservable services to have gangway connections so the passenger load can be balanced without the stupid sight of people running along the platforms between sections at station stops.

Apologies, not experienced anything newer on this route.

[atoz]

First are a terrible company. I have all too much experience of them as a bus company. I think the reservation ploy is just that- to deter cyclists using the trains, that way they can either ban them or remove the space for them and put another seat there, or both.

And to prove what i said earlier- turns out Northen have lost the franchise for the stopping services on the Huddersfield route- see service changes on West Yorkshire Metro website "Significant changes to all stations along this route, with Northern no longer providing the local stations between Leeds & Huddersfield, and Huddersfield & Manchester Victoria" - see https://www.wymetro.com/trains/may-2018-train-service-change-summary/

[MikeF]

What's annoying is the lack of consistency for cycle carriage between different companies and different units. All train companies have their own "cycle policy" which varies between companies. My main experience of travelling with a cycle is on Southern Electrostar 377 and Turbostar 171 and South Eastern Electrostar 375. I like these units; bikes are carried in the same area as wheelchairs.

However on the West Yorkshire site referred to above there seems to be total inconsistency and also "do not use other areas of the train such as doorways or the designated wheelchair spaces as this will inconvenience other users of the train." .

Cattle trucks (aka Thameslink) are extending their range on 20 May, so I yet to find out what taking a bike on one of those is like!

[mjr]

Cattle trucks (aka Thameslink) are extending their range on 20 May, so I yet to find out what taking a bike on one of those is like!

It's great as long as you get on one of the doors with bike symbols by them. A big seatless space with straps attached to the wall to lasso the top tube or seat post. I think I've posted a picture before but I didn't find it just now.