Sportives - love them or loathe them?

[roubaixtuesday]

Sportives seem to have come about to fill what's often referred to as "a market niche" - faux races for faux racers, if one is to be uncharitable. They seem to appeal to those who like to buy a finished product rather than to those who prefer to have an engrossing and rewarding hobby or pastime. Junk cycling? Ready-meal cycling? A bit harsh but I suspect y'all know what I mean.
Cugel

Yes, this is uncharitable.

Yes, it is harsh.

I do find it quite incredible the negativity aimed at events which get 1000s of people out on their bikes because it's not the right sort of cycling.

[mjr]

I do find it quite incredible the negativity aimed at events which get 1000s of people out on their bikes because it's not the right sort of cycling.

Do any of these events really "get 1000s of people out on their bikes"? As in, are there that many participants who wouldn't be out otherwise? And does it outweigh the numbers they scare off or injure into giving up (I think 1 in 4 seriously-injured riders simply give up - I don't remember where that stat came from, sadly) or cause to avoid their routes by thousands?

And do they sustain cycling in the long term, or is it "challenge done, move on to the next challenge which is... extreme ironing!" or "I can't ride any more because I can no longer afford the entry fees / I have done all those which interest me"?

[eileithyia]

Sportives (I think) developed off the back of the continental 'Grand Fondo' style rides. The opportunity to ride one of the stage days that the pros ride...
We already had Audax as challenge rides but the to uninitiated it seemed that sportives were a good idea, add in a charitable element (which as we now know is less charitable) and hey presto.....

As someone who has Audaxed farily regularly the idea of a sportive was not high on my to do list.... I put my hand up and say yes I have done one; a low budget 'recession buster' one a few years ago... yes it was enjoyable but entering on the day meant we went in the back group and just rode around together and not with any other riders.
Audax I usually have ended up riding with other riders, chat / support each other to get around and spend an enjoyable relaxed day with other like minded people. In the sportive we were just off the back with others who just saw it as an opportunity to race around the route.

When I see events advertised at £25 and more to ride roads I already ride (some like the Tatton ladies' ride it is £1/km!!!!!) I feel I would rather send money direct to a charity.

yes with Audax (and some sportives) I can down load the route.... or chose a route of my own, but as some of the routes are chosen by locals (esp audax) it might that they know the best route or come up with something different to one I might have chosen, and put in points of interest, as well knowing where the best cafes are....

[pjclinch]

I do find it quite incredible the negativity aimed at events which get 1000s of people out on their bikes because it's not the right sort of cycling.

Do any of these events really "get 1000s of people out on their bikes"? As in, are there that many participants who wouldn't be out otherwise? And does it outweigh the numbers they scare off or injure into giving up (I think 1 in 4 seriously-injured riders simply give up - I don't remember where that stat came from, sadly) or cause to avoid their routes by thousands?

And do they sustain cycling in the long term, or is it "challenge done, move on to the next challenge which is... extreme ironing!" or "I can't ride any more because I can no longer afford the entry fees / I have done all those which interest me"?

Pedal For Scotland has 3 rides and the middle one, a 45 miler, had 6000 folk on it last time. It does seem to be genuinely popular, and there's no shortage of folk on the "Wee Jaunt" or "Big Belter" options either. We've only got 5 million people and this has been going for years, I don't think it would have been sustained if people came along and then gave up. Would they be out otherwise? Well, maybe, but if they would be anyway they're probably cyclists, and they've chosen to pay for this ride so if that's what they want, that's their option.

I have no intention of joining in as I prefer my own route at my own pace and my own choice of company, not to mention having the money to spend on something else, but that's me and the thousands of folk who enjoy it do seem to get something out of it, so more power to them.

Similarly, I have no interest in "walking festivals" and all sorts of similar organised activities that have me pay for what I can do anyway, but nobody's forcing anyone to do them, so any degree of looking down on the participants is me being a snob rather than they deserve looking down at. I think a lot of people do it for the shared experience, and that's the sort of thing that can really give people a psychological lift and a good day.

Pete.

[TrevA]

I do find it quite incredible the negativity aimed at events which get 1000s of people out on their bikes because it's not the right sort of cycling.

Do any of these events really "get 1000s of people out on their bikes"? As in, are there that many participants who wouldn't be out otherwise? And does it outweigh the numbers they scare off or injure into giving up (I think 1 in 4 seriously-injured riders simply give up - I don't remember where that stat came from, sadly) or cause to avoid their routes by thousands?

And do they sustain cycling in the long term, or is it "challenge done, move on to the next challenge which is... extreme ironing!" or "I can't ride any more because I can no longer afford the entry fees / I have done all those which interest me"?

The nearest thing I've done to a Sportive, is the Great Nottingham Bike Ride. It used to be just a 50 miler but now it's a choice of 25,50,75,100 and 125 miles. Yes, it gets a lot of people out on bikes, but some have no clue how to ride in a group, no discipline and yet think they are god's gift to cycling, it used to cost a tenner to ride but now it's £50 or more. Not for me, thanks.

At least at an audax, you know that the majority are club or CTC riders and know how to ride in a group. There is a sense of camaraderie and shared achievement in completing the ride. Some people will race around, some will take their time, but I've never been anywhere near the time limit, even taking 2 leisurely cafe stops in a 100km ride. I usually get round in 5 hours, 6 if it's really hilly but the time limit is around 7 hours. I've only done 1 200k but got round in just over 10 hours whereas the time limit is 14. Doing my next one this coming weekend, and if that goes well I'll do a 300 in July.

The routes are often based on regular club run routes of the organising club, and they know the best and quietest roads to ride on, so routes are often a delight, taking you along roads you would never find on your own.

[eileithyia]

All the best for your 200 Trev.

The other note I would add is the dreadful discipline... having come across one ride I saw families with children on the wrong side of the road, one coming through an offset blind bridge / bend on the wrongside of the road and almost taking myself out!!!!

I do worry when I see signs up advertising yet another ride locally, as often the area can be swamped with such rides and must annoy drivers... yes I know we need tolerance but it can be stretched in both directions when there is a seeming endless stream of poor road usage.

[mjr]

I think a lot of people do it for the shared experience, and that's the sort of thing that can really give people a psychological lift and a good day.

How is it a shared experience rather than people having similar experiences alone one after another? Both sportives and audaxes seem to end up with people riding alone or with the same groups of riders they already knew. Yes, they can look like a lot of people if you're riding across/against the route, but they're usually spread over a very long course so riders don't see that often, like awavey described. I think you might need nearly 100 riders a mile before it becomes that mass type of ride (like the London Freecycle or the Cambridge-Reach Ride) and the 1 rider per km of a typical audax or 10 per mile of a usual sportive just doesn't cut it.

Maybe that's why I don't like most of these events: people talk about them as if they're some great social experience and that's just not been true of most of the ones I've done. I've probably done more sociable campaigns rides and day-trips than sociable sportives or audaxes.

[ANTONISH]

Audax enables me to do a pleasant ride, out of my area planned by someone with local knowledge.
The bureaucracy is limited to perhaps answering a few questions on a card or getting it stamped.
It doesn't ruin my ride.

But what's the point? These days, pretty good routes are online or easily generated with planners so groups can go ride another area fairly easy, subject to train or car assistance availability. It's not like you get the sportive style mass ride excitement on an audax because they seem to settle into small groups and solitaries pretty quickly.

And have you never found the time limits a bit off, stopping you having a relaxed lunch in a cafe that's busier than usual because of all the audaxers and no time for a pub or photo stop unless you phone in as an abandon?

Does there have to be a point ?
I like the audax system - obviously I can plan a ride but I don't have local knowledge.
Generally the company is pleasant - I've got to know a lot of people over the years, although I tend to do the ride on my own.
I generally like to complete a ride before a pub visit - the time limits are quite generous and I'm not really bothered about a leisurely meal.
I've ridden sportives - only twice in the UK - but I've ridden continental events with a 1000 participants who are usually pretty good group riders - don't like large fast groups in the UK due to the state of the roads and the erratic riding- anyway I'm getting too old for all that.

[mjr]

Does there have to be a point ?

Well, if there's no point to the bureaucracy, why put up with it?

[Si]

Never done a modern bells'n'whistles sportive. The only one that I was momentarily tempted to do was the Velo Birmingham last year because it would have been such a remarkable occasion - all those cyclists riding on car free streets through motor-city. And I hear that in places like Bewdley there are a brilliant carnival atmosphere. But I didn't do it because of the cost and lack of fitness (there are rumours of entering an office team next time, however I have tried to redirect them to the Real Ale Wobble).

The actual going quick and testing yourself bit wasn't really for me as I don't go quick and I've done 100 miles numerous times before.

Word was that many people enjoyed it (both riders and spectators), there were teething troubles and NIMBYs, but it seems to have got some good publicity for cycling in Birmingham.

Given the choice I think that I'm more of an Audaxer - smaller fields, more relaxed, no need for you-know-whats and don't feel out of place if you don't have a flash bike, cheaper, home cooking, etc etc. Not that i've ought agin sportives (or any other event) if everyone behaves.

But given the choice again....I'd much rather do the LetsRide ride I did yesterday in Birmingham...closed roads, no need for you-know-whats, no need for a bike in fact as you could borrow one, FREE, virtually no competitive atmosphere, loads of kids and people of all shapes and sizes, etc etc Only did one lap as I was personning a promo stand....but talked to 100s of happy people about riding a bike...it were bloody brilliant.

[pjclinch]

I think a lot of people do it for the shared experience, and that's the sort of thing that can really give people a psychological lift and a good day.

How is it a shared experience rather than people having similar experiences alone one after another?

I'll give a couple of examples by way of an answer.

My brother is quite a keen triathlete and when he was starting to get in to it he suggested I enter a "mini" event (500m swim, 15 mile cycle, 4 mile run) he and his missus were helping with. I wasn't sure... I hadn't been swimming for ages and so I popped to the local baths and was gasping after 350m, absolutely no way I'd do more, and a ride, and a run (I'm an indifferent runner as well as swimmer), so I 'phoned to say no, but he said I should come down and fail properly, so along I went, riding down on my tourer. I didn't know anyone else doing it, I started off very much going through the motions and was last out of the pool but on the bike (with mudguards and rack still on, up against road bikes) I actually overhauled quite a few people, and assured them they'd see me again when they passed me on the run, and all of my fellow back-markers were similarly supportive of one another and in the end I came in not-last and really pleased with myself for completing it. Too tired to ride home (20 odd miles with hills), luckily a police team gave me a ride home in their Transit, we'd all had a great time.

Another occasion with my brother (older but fitter and sportier than me), his partner for a mountain marathon had dropped out ill and I was required to fill in (it's not a marathon through mountains, it's a two-day orienteering race where you carry all your camping kit for an overnight stop). I didn't have any time to train but just being in the event allowed me to raise my game, and we came 60th out of 240 pairs. The degree to which I'd managed to dig out reserves was illustrated by the way I ran the last mile or so pretty hard, including a sprint finish, and within a couple of minutes I was so stiff I could barely walk.

In each case everybody there created a vibe that allowed me (and I think a lot of others) to do something they wouldn't or couldn't normally manage. Not people I knew, or had much opportunity to talk to, but all part of the same slightly mad thing we were in together.

Pete.

[roubaixtuesday]

mjr,

How is it a shared experience rather than people having similar experiences alone one after another?

I'm not going to write any more on this other than to observe that your perception of people's experiences of these events is directly in contradiction to the participants actual experience of them.

Finally, here's a pic of some people having "similar experiences alone" at a village en fete during the Ardechoise sportif.

[TrevA]

I ride audaxes with my wife mainly, but we find that groups form naturally, then split and reform. You often get chatting to other riders in your temporary group, find out where they are from and what they have done in the past. Lots of interesting bikes too, from the latest carbon to 40 year old touring bikes, complete with old style Christophe toeclips and leather straps.

As I said before, it's about the shared experience and sense of achievement. I rode the Tramway 100 the week before last and we all got caught in a torrential rainstorm near Hathersage. Not pleasant at the time but we all laughed about it at the finish. Entry fee was £6 but we got £3 back to spend in the cafe at Cromford at the end.

2 stamps at cafe stops and 2 info controls - hardly taxing on the brain from an admin viewpoint. The brevet card is a souvenir of the ride.

[mjr]

I'm sure the audaxes I've done had more than 2 stamps and 2 questions... but I still don't think a form is much of a souvenir, even if it is printed in colour on card and has a sticker on it.

How is it a shared experience rather than people having similar experiences alone one after another?

I'm not going to write any more on this other than to observe that your perception of people's experiences of these events is directly in contradiction to the participants actual experience of them.

Now that reads like a snarky way of suggesting that I'm not a participant with actual experience of them. I have ridden both sportives and audaxes. I approached both with open minds. I enjoyed a few sportives before they seemed to get bigger (accepting more people than they could really handle IMO), put their prices up and started clamping down on rider equipment in a misguided attempt to improve safety, rather than doing anything about riders' actual riding. I've ridden some audaxes (BPs, so maybe that's not a real audax to some of you :p ) and really don't see the attraction, for the reasons above.

Finally, here's a pic of some people having "similar experiences alone" at a village en fete during the Ardechoise sportif.

Now, unless there's been some stunning development in the Brexit negotiations, that's not a UK sportive, and unless I'm counting wrong, the rider density is well above the 10 riders per mile I mentioned. Similarly, triathlons are not a UK sportive or audax.

I agree with Si. True mass-participation shared cycling events like LetsRide knock almost all UK sportives into a very small cocked hat. Or the few surviving non-sportive charity rides are good fun, too.

[robing]

Never done a road one as such, The Evans off road ones tend to be a lot cheaper, I'd never figure the off road routes out myself in parts of the country I don't know.

Having said that, I have entered this. With a ferry crossing included, it doesn't seem such bad value with a ferry crossing included. https://www.ukcyclingevents.co.uk/event ... -sportive/

So in summary, if it's offers a different dimension, I'm happy. If it doesn't, it's Audax all the way for me.

Good luck with that. My sportive was UK Cycling and was very poor value for money. Your cross channel sportive is £75.
Now you can get a return ferry ticket for as low as £20, so you could just do your own thing and have some great food
and still have plenty of change left