Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 8 Jul 2018, 10:53pm

Usually riders know something is coming from the reaction of the horse which is far better at detecting fast moving noise sources from behind. They'll be aware of cyclists before they arrive. The issue is whether the horse has learnt what that noise means. Of course using the human voice when nearer let's the horse know there's a human approaching even though there's a strange noise associated with it.

The rider did get injured, a sprain of some kind and bruising. Not that it's a bad injury but does that matter if there is an injury related to a furious cycling event.

Furious cycling does engender ridicule in these modern times. However until it gets updated in legislation i assume it's the only way to prosecute the cyclist's. Does that mean we let them off for fear of ridicule? Some justice there. Not that I expect justice.

Aah well! We'll see if anything happens I'm sure. At least the organisers took action. If the police and cps take it no further will they be free to let the names out?

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Jul 2018, 11:34pm

robing wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Let's hope the police pursue the case and the loonies get fined a few hundred £££'s each.

Sorry but that's way over the top, this was a minor incident of undue care, you can't startv handing out fines when a talking to is the appropriate action, in far worse cases the individuals are given a talking to, that's IF the police actually bother to act at all, so why should this MINOR incident be treated any differently? Why are the police even bothering putting so much effort into this trivial matter, they must have a lot of time on their hands and no deaths/SI to deal with. :roll:
Your over the top reaction is just so typical and totally misplaced.

A big fine is probably the only thing those ****s would understand.
Imagine if in that video the horse and rider were a cyclist, and the triathletes were motorbikes behaving like that.
I think you'd have a different opinion then.

Except it's not a 150+kg motorbike that would be doing at least twice the speed is it, totally different or do you think being struck by a bicycle plus rider is the same as being struck by a motorcycle doing 50/60/70mph on a country lane??

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Jul 2018, 11:41pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Usually riders know something is coming from the reaction of the horse which is far better at detecting fast moving noise sources from behind. They'll be aware of cyclists before they arrive. The issue is whether the horse has learnt what that noise means. Of course using the human voice when nearer let's the horse know there's a human approaching even though there's a strange noise associated with it.

The rider did get injured, a sprain of some kind and bruising. Not that it's a bad injury but does that matter if there is an injury related to a furious cycling event.

Furious cycling does engender ridicule in these modern times. However until it gets updated in legislation i assume it's the only way to prosecute the cyclist's. Does that mean we let them off for fear of ridicule? Some justice there. Not that I expect justice.

Aah well! We'll see if anything happens I'm sure. At least the organisers took action. If the police and cps take it no further will they be free to let the names out?

Unless there's medical evidence of this actually happening at that time we only have the horse riders word that that is the case. It's hard for her to prove seeing as we didn't see where the (light) impact occurred, how do we know she didn't bruise herself that morning in the yard, we can't see the point of impact so how can we know for sure if the bike actually struck her?
This is the police line of thinking is applied in pretty much every single motorist collision into person on bike case, not mine, only fair we apply the same rules/level of applying the law for all no? Some on here as well as CUK would have then strung up by the ballacks and flogged. :roll:

Are they twonks/bang out of order, yes, I've said this repeatedly, however it's still a minor incident and does not warrant the ridiculous charges/fines that some are coming up with which are massively in excess comparative to elsewhere/other road users. Maybe people here think applying the law differently if you ride a bike is fair despite how little harm it does by comparison, even pedestrians themselves are more to blame for their deaths than people on bike and that's with the bias police force doing the form filling!

awavey
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby awavey » 9 Jul 2018, 12:45am

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Because frankly I'd rather that another furious cycling charge wasn't brought because it's archaic and anachronistic and brings ridicule in the press, which is unhelpful.

I'd rather other traffic law was used.

"Cyclist charged with Furious Cycling after horse rider suffers sore foot" and so on...


I take your point and agree that particular law needs updating,but is there currently any other traffic law that could be brought against those dangerous idiots?


well I know why we focus on the furious cycling part alot, but the Road Traffic Act does have both a careless and a dangerous cycling, with maximum fines upto £2,500 in the case of the dangerous cycling. Neither of them require the cyclist to have caused injury to anyone, its simply that the manner of cycling was either without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, or that their riding/behaviour fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist

so they would seem to be wholly appropriate avenues that are open for the police/cps to pursue, whilst not wanting to prejudge their investigation.

robing
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby robing » 9 Jul 2018, 8:23am

The utility cyclist wrote:
robing wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Sorry but that's way over the top, this was a minor incident of undue care, you can't startv handing out fines when a talking to is the appropriate action, in far worse cases the individuals are given a talking to, that's IF the police actually bother to act at all, so why should this MINOR incident be treated any differently? Why are the police even bothering putting so much effort into this trivial matter, they must have a lot of time on their hands and no deaths/SI to deal with. :roll:
Your over the top reaction is just so typical and totally misplaced.

A big fine is probably the only thing those ****s would understand.
Imagine if in that video the horse and rider were a cyclist, and the triathletes were motorbikes behaving like that.
I think you'd have a different opinion then.

Except it's not a 150+kg motorbike that would be doing at least twice the speed is it, totally different or do you think being struck by a bicycle plus rider is the same as being struck by a motorcycle doing 50/60/70mph on a country lane??

The principle would be the same though. One group of road users driving recklessly and with no regard for other more vulnerable road users. Or do you think it's acceptable for cyclists to behave like that?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Jul 2018, 10:03am

robing wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
robing wrote:A big fine is probably the only thing those ****s would understand.
Imagine if in that video the horse and rider were a cyclist, and the triathletes were motorbikes behaving like that.
I think you'd have a different opinion then.

Except it's not a 150+kg motorbike that would be doing at least twice the speed is it, totally different or do you think being struck by a bicycle plus rider is the same as being struck by a motorcycle doing 50/60/70mph on a country lane??

The principle would be the same though. One group of road users driving recklessly and with no regard for other more vulnerable road users. Or do you think it's acceptable for cyclists to behave like that?


Not sure a horse and rider is more vulnerable than a cyclist, but they are certainly other vulnerable users...
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jul 2018, 10:10am

I wonder if a cyclist had ever been prosecuted for hitting a motorcyclist or car before?

Just a ludicrous idea that popped into my head. It's just that the idea of size / weight of victim shouldn't be a factor in whether it was a crime or not surely? A cyclist hit a horse. Horse was spooked and lost a shoe, the rider was injured.

It does not surprise me to see utility cyclist arguing the case against any action being taken by the police/cps tbh. I just wonder how far you can take UC's argument? I am sure a good legal brain could follow the same argument to defend a different road user day a driver who hit a cyclist. I doubt the argument would work and I doubt it would here. If the police proceed I bet they've hit enough to convince who they need to convince the cyclist caused the injury.

As to minor offences well UC complains about police not taking action or policing the roads for the safety of cyclists but he's arguing its not right to do it in this case. They should be enforcing the regulations for all IMHO.

reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jul 2018, 10:15am

awavey wrote:
well I know why we focus on the furious cycling part alot, but the Road Traffic Act does have both a careless and a dangerous cycling, with maximum fines upto £2,500 in the case of the dangerous cycling. Neither of them require the cyclist to have caused injury to anyone, its simply that the manner of cycling was either without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, or that their riding/behaviour fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist

so they would seem to be wholly appropriate avenues that are open for the police/cps to pursue, whilst not wanting to prejudge their investigation.

Thanks for that I was unaware of it and I agree that would indeed be an avenue for the authoriities to investigate.
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robing
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby robing » 9 Jul 2018, 10:23am

I think it's a shame we can't all roundly condemn the actions of those cyclists.
There's too much victim blaming and trivialising of it.

reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jul 2018, 10:32am

Bonefishblues wrote:......."Cyclist charged with Furious Cycling after horse rider suffers sore foot" and so on...


Thinking about it,are we to say that a close pass by a car is safe because the driver caused no damage,or it wouldn't be dangerous driving if clipping a cyclist with a wing mirror and causing only a bruised shoulder.
The situation is one of potential as a result of an action,dangerous cycling in this case,which I'm sure you'd agree was potentially dangerous should the horse,to use an old term,"taken with the boggarts" as a result,and caused damage to the rider,any following cyclists in the event and also to itself.All of which isn't beyond the realms of possibility in the circumstances.
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reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jul 2018, 10:34am

robing wrote:I think it's a shame we can't all roundly condemn the actions of those cyclists.
There's too much victim blaming and trivialising of it.

+1 again.
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reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jul 2018, 10:48am

Tangled Metal wrote:. ..........As to minor offences well UC complains about police not taking action or policing the roads for the safety of cyclists but he's arguing its not right to do it in this case. They should be enforcing the regulations for all IMHO.


Quite right the regs should be applied to all equally,but to complain that those regs are not being applied equally to motorists as they are to cyclists as an excuse to claim this incident is only "minor" is a skewed outlook IMO.
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mjr
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby mjr » 9 Jul 2018, 11:42am

Vorpal wrote:That said, I understand the point that much more serious incidents are not adequately dealt with. But I think that the problem is with a lack of pursuing investigation and prosecution in other incdents, not that the reaction is excessive with this one.

If every 'minor' incident on the roads were taken so seriously, we'd have few serious ones.

But while even other serious incidents are not taken seriously, it makes this look trumped up, that we only get the full force of the rules and law when the offender is on a bike.

A ban and fine is probably the correct response. If the police act on this when they aren't on so many motorist attacks on cyclists (and I think this is Thames Valley who are reportedly very soft on motoring violence), then it'll be unjust.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jul 2018, 2:08pm

Taken with the boggarts? Love that phrase.

A horse got taken with the boggarts when a sports cat overtook a friend waiting on his car behind a horse for a safe place to pass. The horse, taken with the boggarts, went a bit crazy and somehow (I wasn't there) kicked the passenger side of the car this guy I knew was driving. His car was a structural writeoff. The horse was too and just about made it through a field entrance before it fell. A nearby farmer was there and I can't remember the details other than it was dispatched as humanely at possible. The sports car and driver read supposedly being hunted by the police.

You can spook a horse by dangerous behaviour but not quite able to get the same reaction from a cyclist. Once spooked a horse can be dangerous to all close by. Just like a few cyclists just not quite as dangerous as the horse despite their online claims. A horse rider can get injured / killed as well as the steed. A cyclist can get killed but its steed is just an object, as important to the owner as it is I just can't get upset about a bike.

There's a few similarities between cyclists and horse riders, vulnerability that's different but significant. However you need to keep the roads safe for both not just one.

reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jul 2018, 3:42pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Taken with the boggarts? Love that phrase.......


It's a term my old Dad used when he was alive.He'd working in the pit with ponies when he was a young man.
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