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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 10:11am
by thirdcrank
Some of this is perception: equestrians have somehow achieved more empathy among the wider public than have cyclists. This should never have happened but it's not in itself a major incident. A cyclist being killed might not have received this measure of public interest.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 10:19am
by TrevA
You don't need a race licence to compete in a TT, you just need to be a member of a CTT registered club.

I've organised road races in the past and made every effort to contact local stables and inform them of the event beforehand. BC should have some form of tie up with the British Horse Society, so that this sort of thing can be done through official channels.

However, this was a triathlon. I've no idea if the notification requirements are the same as those for road races, I would assume that they are - in that you need police permission to run the event on open roads.

This video has been shared on my local Facebook group, and cyclists are being lambasted in the comments. if a cyclist does something wrong, then all cyclists are tarred with the same brush, but this doesn't happen with motorists.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 11:04am
by Igobybike
From the one Human Race organised event I've participated in, I would say their organisation is impeccable. All riders are given a safety briefing before the start reminding them that they are riding on live roads and must obey the highway code. Signposting is excellent. Maybe they could have done more ensure that all residents along the route were aware of the event, but this could have been difficult and in fact even if this rider had been aware, she was also fully entitled to use the road when she chose to do so. The ones to blame for this were the riders generally who were passing unnecessarily close to the horse, and the particular rider who, unbelievably, hit the horse and rider while trying to pass on the inside - a completely insane thing to do. Either he didn't see them until it was too late and is a dangerous idiot, or he deliberately chose to try and pass on the inside in which case he's even more of a dangerous idiot.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 11:58am
by Grandad
There are some cyclists who have a race head that replaces their normal sensible head when they are racing. I've seen too many taking serious risks when marshalling at junctions and roundabouts. Fortunately they are a small minority but as with this incident their risk taking is unbelievable

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 12:06pm
by Postboxer
It looks on the video like possibly the riders were in a group and the others went right and he went left, there appears to be a gap between the first and second riders passing on the right at the same time the rider passes on the left. I don't think any of the riders in the video do an acceptable pass.

Are triathlons like this really races? Are there any race vehicles leading the front riders? I can understand the people at the front racing, isn't everyone else just out to do the course and maybe improve their own time, much like people doing the London Marathon or people taking part in a sportive? If they are all racing, then without race officials, one rider may slow down and do a safe pass, only to be overtaken by umpteen riders blasting by.

Maybe if all the riders were using Strava then it might not be too hard to track them all down just by finding one.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 1:14pm
by eileithyia
Interesting to note the comments regarding a leading car in a triathlon. We need to remember that it is an individual event..rather than a mass 'all start at the same time' road race style event. Cyclists will have typically already completed a swim... which will have separated participants when they start the cycle section, also they are not supposed to take pace or draught another riders, so they will be spread out over a period of time...
This is not to excuse the behaviour of the cyclists but to explain why there would not be a lead car on that part of the road at that particular time.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 1:23pm
by 661-Pete
thirdcrank wrote:Some of this is perception: equestrians have somehow achieved more empathy among the wider public than have cyclists. This should never have happened but it's not in itself a major incident. A cyclist being killed might not have received this measure of public interest.
You are right - no-one's been seriously hurt and if it had been - say - a car side-swiping another car, no-one would have paid it a blind bit of attention. But as you say, this sort of incident does nothing whatever to bolster public perception of cycling as a whole...

One thing that should be brought to attention: one horse-rider plus one horse have evidently been significantly traumatised by this encounter. I'm sure others will join me in expressing sympathy to them both, and hoping they'll get over this nasty experience...

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 2:05pm
by andrew_s
Igobybike wrote:...he didn't see them until it was too late and is a dangerous idiot...

I'd guess that this is the case, and that he didn't see because he was looking at a gps/heart rate/power meter, with his view of the horse earlier having been obstructed by the first two riders, until they moved out to pass.

Any regular club rider would have called out for the pass, but I'd guess most triathletes do most of their riding alone, especially if they mostly compete in a non-drafting version of the sport.

As for the notification side of things, it's difficult.
The horses are likely to be scattered in a considerable number of small yards, most of which nobody outside the equestrian wold will know about.
If notices along the route were put up, most people will not read them, pass too fast to be able to read them, or forget about them more or less immediately. When driving, I've found I never get time to read the event type and event date unless there are 3 or 4 notices at 200m (ish) intervals.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 2:08pm
by Tangled Metal
If a motorist leaves the scene of an accident which has resulted in an injury is that officially an offence?

If a cyclist leaves the scene of an accident which has resulted in an injury is that officially an offence?

How bad does the injury have to be?

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 3:35pm
by NUKe
You can call it shameful, but I have a doubt whether it was deliberate. Having seen racer ride into the back of cars, it is very easy to go head down whilst racing especially when you are 100 percent. And not see what is coming especially if you are at the back of other riders
Again the rider should have stopped but adrenalin, does funny things to the mind, and the flight response can kick in.

My own view is whilst the rider is at fault, the event is poorly run if a horse can get on to the circuit , the organiser should accept responsibility as well.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 3:46pm
by Mick F
Late to the party here.
Sorry.

Just watched the video link.
The horse was great and calm and used to cyclists, but the horse rider must have realised PDQ that there were more cyclists going to come through fast and furious.

The horse rider could have pulled over and waited. You cannot take a dangerous animal onto the road without being careful.
Not victim blaming here! Just suggesting that vulnerable road users - even with every right to be on the roads - like cyclists and horse riders - should be very very careful.

It's a jungle out there.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 5:00pm
by Flinders
Pulling over and waiting isn't always a good option with horses. They aren't cars, they have minds of their own, and some of them will think that they have been pulled over because something is wrong, and get edgy and start looking for what the 'problem' is.

There is no possible excuse for any cyclist trying to overtake a horse on the inside. None.
I ride and cycle, and if you think drivers 'close pass' cyclists, you should experience what they do to horses. Drivers often completely misread the width of a horse + rider's legs. I've had friends who have ended up with broken ankles or worse as a result. And some, as with cyclists, are actively hostile. A poster further up suggested horses were more popular- well, up to a point Lord Copper.

There are also drivers who deliberately try to scare horses for fun, using their horns etc. One of my friends who had a pony was targeted by a driver who turned his vehicle round to have another go at her and her horse. Some drivers perceive a horse as an upper class toy and assume a rider is always a 'toff' and take revenge on them accordingly. For those tempted into that idea, many riders exercising horses on the road are working, in racing or other horse industries, and are not at all well paid. And not all horse owners are 'toffs'. Keeping a horse costs about as much as keeping a car, and there are more horses in the UK now than there were just before the combustion engine came in. Most owners of common or garden horses who hack out on the roads are not wealthy, and many scrimp on other things to pay for their horse's upkeep, just as some of us scrimp to pay for nice bikes.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 5:13pm
by Mick F
Flinders wrote:Pulling over and waiting isn't always a good option with horses. They aren't cars, they have minds of their own, and some of them will think that they have been pulled over because something is wrong, and get edgy and start looking for what the 'problem' is.
You could be right, but it appeared to me, that the rider did nothing but carry on.

Where was the camera mounted?
If on the head, the rider never looked to the rear and I doubt she had a mirror.
Riders we see round here look backwards and forwards at the passing traffic.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 6:52pm
by MikeF
Mick F wrote:
Flinders wrote:Pulling over and waiting isn't always a good option with horses. They aren't cars, they have minds of their own, and some of them will think that they have been pulled over because something is wrong, and get edgy and start looking for what the 'problem' is.
You could be right, but it appeared to me, that the rider did nothing but carry on.

Where was the camera mounted?
If on the head, the rider never looked to the rear and I doubt she had a mirror.
Riders we see round here look backwards and forwards at the passing traffic.
What good would that have done? She wasn't changing direction and she couldn't "vaporise". The horse and rider were simply walking along the road. A horse usual is very aware of what is happening behind. That must have been the most docile horse ever. If it hadn't been some of those cyclists could have been severely kicked, passing like that. They would have had zero sympathy from me!

That video has now been watched by nearly 4 million in 1 day. That is the best publicity the anti cycling brigade could have. All of those cyclists could have used the opposite side of the road - none of them did. Unbelievable! All want reprimanding.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Posted: 18 Jun 2018, 7:21pm
by thirdcrank
MikeF wrote: ... That is the best publicity the anti cycling brigade could have. ...


And there you have it. Which is what I was getting at with perception.