Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

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brynpoeth
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Jun 2018, 7:27pm

Flinders wrote:Pulling over and waiting isn't always a good option with horses. They aren't cars, they have minds of their own, and some of them will think that they have been pulled over because something is wrong, and get edgy and start looking for what the 'problem' is.

There is no possible excuse for any cyclist trying to overtake a horse on the inside. None.
I ride and cycle, and if you think drivers 'close pass' cyclists, you should experience what they do to horses. Drivers often completely misread the width of a horse + rider's legs. I've had friends who have ended up with broken ankles or worse as a result. And some, as with cyclists, are actively hostile. A poster further up suggested horses were more popular- well, up to a point Lord Copper.

There are also drivers who deliberately try to scare horses for fun, using their horns etc. One of my friends who had a pony was targeted by a driver who turned his vehicle round to have another go at her and her horse. Some drivers perceive a horse as an upper class toy and assume a rider is always a 'toff' and take revenge on them accordingly. For those tempted into that idea, many riders exercising horses on the road are working, in racing or other horse industries, and are not at all well paid. And not all horse owners are 'toffs'. Keeping a horse costs about as much as keeping a car, and there are more horses in the UK now than there were just before the combustion engine came in. Most owners of common or garden horses who hack out on the roads are not wealthy, and many scrimp on other things to pay for their horse's upkeep, just as some of us scrimp to pay for nice bikes.

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What time is it when a horse sits on your car? Time to get a new car %)
Last edited by brynpoeth on 18 Jun 2018, 7:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paulatic
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Paulatic » 18 Jun 2018, 7:28pm

Here is a follow up from the horse rider
30639083-43B1-4BC4-858A-208C002FF0D3.jpeg
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reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2018, 8:01pm

I'm tireing of the excuses made for the cyclists in this thread! :?
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awavey
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby awavey » 18 Jun 2018, 8:49pm

NUKe wrote:You can call it shameful, but I have a doubt whether it was deliberate. Having seen racer ride into the back of cars, it is very easy to go head down whilst racing especially when you are 100 percent. And not see what is coming especially if you are at the back of other riders
Again the rider should have stopped but adrenalin, does funny things to the mind, and the flight response can kick in.

My own view is whilst the rider is at fault, the event is poorly run if a horse can get on to the circuit , the organiser should accept responsibility as well.


they are open roads, you could meet a horse, a herd of cows, cars (infact there seem to be more than few of those complaining about the event on the original shared facebook posting), fire engines, tractors anything

and really are we really saying every single one of those riders was just busy stem staring and got caught out ? because Im amazed any triathlete ever completes the cycle part if thats how they ride, how do they know where the corners are, do they use the force and just feel for the adverse camber change ? or how do they avoid potholes, manhole covers, dead foxes/hedgehogs, know when the road climbs,dips or even turns, how they do they know they arent about to ride into the back of another rider ?

sorry its just excusing p**s poor riding IMO, and we arent even talking yet about the middle finger retort the rider who clipped the horse is then alleged to have made.

and it annoys me,because I know there are going to be idiots out on the road in their cars, who next time they see any cyclist, will give them just that little bit less room because of this

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Paulatic
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Paulatic » 18 Jun 2018, 9:25pm

reohn2 wrote:I'm tireing of the excuses made for the cyclists in this thread! :?


Loads of threads on Twitter some comments from , so called, cyclists just made me want to curl up and die. Looking at the locations of some of these abhorrent people makes me extremely pleased I don’t live in the South of England. What is happening to people down there is beyond my comprehension.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Jun 2018, 10:04pm

So when we are being pulled over and told to go a different route by plod because it's 'dangerous' do we ignore that. Why didn't the rider pay attention to the notices that were up (this is a fact not mentioned).
Whilst allowed somewhere doesn't mean it's a sensible choice knowing particular road users are going to be there en-masse and at speed.
Surely there is some responsibility hwre for the horse rider to take note of signs (or did she ignore them driving to the stables!)
Would you cycle on a road with masses of high speed traffic doing 5/6 times your speed you know very well wpuld increase the chances of an incident.
Responsibility goes both ways as is forced upon people on bikes all the time and in many different guises.

Yes the TRIATHLETE'S were being absolute jockwombles and need a slap. Yes it is sportive/chaingang syndrome, in fact agressive micturate poor attitude shown by pro and amateur racers alike far too often, this is why taking helmets away would reduce this agression/risk taking!

So why are they only considered to be cyclists, surely they are runners and swimmers too. Where is the outrage directed at triathlons n swimming running types?

This is a minor incident police investigating and yet we know they do stuff all when it comes to tens of thousands of incidents far worse than this that people on bikes are on the end of up and down dale every single year

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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby MikeF » 18 Jun 2018, 10:26pm

The utility cyclist wrote:So why are they only considered to be cyclists, surely they are runners and swimmers too. Where is the outrage directed at triathlons n swimming running types?
Because the horse was hit by someone cycling and not by some running or swimming. And a cyclist not looking where he was going at that. I don't think whether they run or swim has any relevance at all. Some probably drive a motor car as well. :shock:

Anyone know the location or what event? Perhaps that might be useful
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AMMoffat
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby AMMoffat » 18 Jun 2018, 10:27pm

The cyclists in the video deserve to be banned from all future events and have their bikes crushed. The close passes on the outside are bad enough but it takes a certain dangerously reckless type of fool to overtake a horse at speed on the inside.

Unfortunately, this sort of riding allows comments like this in the BBC report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... e-44512967) to go unchallenged:

"Amanda Coyne, who lives near the route of the race, said she had encountered cyclists riding "dangerously" while driving shortly before 09:00.

"I nearly had a heart attack as I nearly got hit by a car which had been forced to overtake cyclists who were riding four-abreast," she said.

"They were riding at such speeds and didn't care who was coming in front of them and who was behind them and I really worried there was going to be a terrible accident."

Cyclists on the road cycling at "such speeds" - faster than a car, I think not and a "car...forced to overtake cyclists riding 4 abreast" and which nearly hit an oncoming car. Regardless of the sense or otherwise of cycling 4 abreast (and that is perfectly fine in many circumstances), who was doing the forcing I wonder? So dangerous overtaking can now be blamed on the cyclists and it's hard to challenge in the context of the video. Some cyclists are all cyclists worst enemy.

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Cugel
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Cugel » 18 Jun 2018, 10:34pm

The utility cyclist wrote:So when we are being pulled over and told to go a different route by plod because it's 'dangerous' do we ignore that. Why didn't the rider pay attention to the notices that were up (this is a fact not mentioned).
Whilst allowed somewhere doesn't mean it's a sensible choice knowing particular road users are going to be there en-masse and at speed.
Surely there is some responsibility hwre for the horse rider to take note of signs (or did she ignore them driving to the stables!)

......



Well, as you yourself note in many posts in these forums, the roads are often made dangerous by mad car drivers racing about. Does this mean we should all stop going about the roads on our bicycles, as well as on the horses? Those speed differentials!

Races can be held on open public roads successfully if the racers are controlled to stop their excitement getting the better of them. This happens in road races via the lead car & commissar. There is no such control with these triathlons; or in the pseudo races that are sportives. The cyclists in that video present a good reason for having either far greater controls of such races; or of stopping their occurrence on public roads should control of their antic prove impractical.

Or do you think such racing should be allowed for, say, motorbikes, cars and .... horses on the public roads? (Yippee-ki-yay)! There's a local motorbike mecca in these parts from whence born-again-bikers go racing about at 100mph, many killing themselves and others on a predictably regular basis. Is this OK with you? Should I cycle elsewhere on the Mad Sundays?

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AMMoffat
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby AMMoffat » 18 Jun 2018, 10:38pm

The utility cyclist wrote:..........

This is a minor incident police investigating and yet we know they do stuff all when it comes to tens of thousands of incidents far worse than this that people on bikes are on the end of up and down dale every single year


I disagree that this was a minor incident. The standard of cycling could have resulted in the serious injury or death of the rider, horse or both. I don't think you have to actually kill or seriously injure someone to be guilty of dangerous driving. Should dangerous cycling be treated any differently. How the police treat similar or worse incidents when a driver does similar to a cyclist is a different issue (though no less important).

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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jun 2018, 11:06pm

How defensive do you have to feel to defend those cyclists no matter what?

What I mean is there can be no defence for riding on open roads in a dangerous manner. There's a safety briefing before the start of the race. The organisers say they are investigating this and will ban any rider identified. So the organisers set the standards for riders and they're investigating breaches in their standards.

Cyclists should not be forced off the roads by dangerous drivers. Horse riders should not be forced off the road by dangerous drivers or cyclists.

Even if there were signs for this event (were there any because the rider didn't know about it) should the rider really not be there? If the event cannot operate on open roads with any other road user that might be there then I question whether the event should go ahead on open roads at all. That situation would of course be a sad state of affairs. With responsible participants triathlons and cycle races are a very positive thing to see.

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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby jgurney » 18 Jun 2018, 11:58pm

The utility cyclist wrote: Surely there is some responsibility hwre for the horse rider to take note of signs


The signs said therer would be more cyclists on the road than usual. They did not say anyone would attempt the lunatic riding which in fact occurred.

Would you cycle on a road with masses of high speed traffic doing 5/6 times your speed


I quite often do, in order to get from A to B.

you know very well wpuld increase the chances of an incident.


Nonsense. High traffic levels are not in themselves dangerous as long as everyone rides and drives properly. As long as I am riding properly, if a criminal in a car drives dangerously any resulting collision is entirely their fault.

Responsibility goes both ways


There is no reason to suppose the equestrian involved was failing to ride responsibly.

slowster
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby slowster » 19 Jun 2018, 12:05am

I wonder how much ignorance might have been a factor, i.e. not only general ignorance of Highway Code Rule 215, which applies to all road users, and which most of the cyclists should have read in the course of taking driving tests, since I think it is a reasonable assumption that most hold driving licences, but also

- ignorance of the particular risk of horses being spooked by silent bicycles overtaking either too close and/or too fast. In other words, drivers think the risk is lower on bike, so they give less room when cycling than they would when driving.

- collective ignorance of cyclists riding in a group. Even if most of the riders individually were aware of the risks and knew how to safely overtake a horse (and would invariably do so when riding solo), I suspect that it might not take too many ignorant/bad/dangerous riders in a group to have an impact on many of the other riders. For example, if riders at the front of the group are not aware and do not warn riders behind, and instead maintain speed and do not move far enough out, then many of the riders behind may not have sufficient time to react adequately when they see the horse. This effect will be exacerbated if they are riding two abreast, and the cyclist on the right is ignorant of the need to pull out early to the centre/right hand side of the road to make enough space for the cyclist on their left to be able to avoid a close pass. It's possible that the rider who undertook the horse was effectively boxed in by other riders, which resulted in his making a very bad decision to undertake (I am not excusing him, but other riders may also have been to blame as well for it happening).

In a club which has regular club rides, new cyclists soon learn these things from the other riders. I suspect that many triathlete and sportive riders do not belong to such clubs, and they just rely on their awareness of road hazards etc. from their experience of driving cars.

I thought that triathletes were required to ride solo, i.e. time trial, and that bunched riding was only allowed by the governing body at Elite/Olympic level. Incidents like this where riders are racing in a bunch without a road closure, will probably prompt calls for the races to be banned.
Last edited by slowster on 19 Jun 2018, 12:10am, edited 1 time in total.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby The utility cyclist » 19 Jun 2018, 12:07am

AMMoffat wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:..........

This is a minor incident police investigating and yet we know they do stuff all when it comes to tens of thousands of incidents far worse than this that people on bikes are on the end of up and down dale every single year


I disagree that this was a minor incident. The standard of cycling could have resulted in the serious injury or death of the rider, horse or both. I don't think you have to actually kill or seriously injure someone to be guilty of dangerous driving. Should dangerous cycling be treated any differently. How the police treat similar or worse incidents when a driver does similar to a cyclist is a different issue (though no less important).

it's a minor incident, no death, no serious injury, ergo it's a minor incident that is the same which occurs tens of thousands of times every year to people on bikes alone AND ignored by police. Is it not particularly nice for those on the receiving end, absolutely, but comparatively speaking it is a minor incident, to think it is serious is not being objective.
Keep jumping on the bandwagon of over reaction.

brynpoeth
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby brynpoeth » 19 Jun 2018, 5:29am

Learned some more :?

"Forced to overtake riding four abreast"*
It was a race, surely the cyclists were going fast, was there any "need" to overtake

"collective ignorance" or stupidity (one has read about swarm intelligence)

Surely "races" on open roads should be restricted. How can this be turned round publicity wise? I was glad to read of cyclists supporting the horse + rider, +1

* another priceless phrase for my collection
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