Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
pwa
Posts: 10217
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby pwa » 19 Jun 2018, 6:59am

The utility cyclist wrote:
AMMoffat wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:..........

This is a minor incident police investigating and yet we know they do stuff all when it comes to tens of thousands of incidents far worse than this that people on bikes are on the end of up and down dale every single year


I disagree that this was a minor incident. The standard of cycling could have resulted in the serious injury or death of the rider, horse or both. I don't think you have to actually kill or seriously injure someone to be guilty of dangerous driving. Should dangerous cycling be treated any differently. How the police treat similar or worse incidents when a driver does similar to a cyclist is a different issue (though no less important).

it's a minor incident, no death, no serious injury, ergo it's a minor incident that is the same which occurs tens of thousands of times every year to people on bikes alone AND ignored by police. Is it not particularly nice for those on the receiving end, absolutely, but comparatively speaking it is a minor incident, to think it is serious is not being objective.
Keep jumping on the bandwagon of over reaction.


You say over-reaction, but all we are doing is sitting typing while sipping a cup of coffee or whatever. No effort involved. You are right to say that it turned out as a minor incident, but viewing that footage made us feel annoyed, and expressing that online helps us to get that out of our system. We want to express our disgust. It is natural to want to do that. What you witness in that scene is bullying of an individual by a group, and in any context that will make viewers angry and wanting to let steam off.

Phil Fouracre
Posts: 802
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 12:16pm
Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Phil Fouracre » 19 Jun 2018, 8:59am

Where to start? Mind boggling! Scary video, but, even scarier comments. What sort of fantasy world do some people live in?
This is an open road, for use by everyone, using whatever type of transport they choose.
The fact that any group choose to race on it does not absolve them of any responsibility to be aware of their surroundings. Comments about 'being unsighted' or not having a clear view ahead, are irrelevant, this is a deliberate choice of the participant. If you choose to not look where you are going, whatever form of vehicle you use, then that is your own stupid fault. There seem to be a huge number of people, using every form of vehicle known to man, that feel that, they can act exactly as they want, irrespective of the prevailing road conditions. Hence the continuous stories of conflict between all groups.
To me, the most amazing aspect of the video, is the apparent ignorance of the riders, of the power and speed of a horses reactions. If it had chosen to kick out, anyone within range could quite easily have died!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5662
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jun 2018, 9:15am

I used to know a guy who got his car written off by a horse that read spooked (a saab so a fairly solid brand of car). It wasn't his fault but the fault of a two seater convertible sports car that overtook him as he overtook the horse safely. I don't know his two cars and a horse can fit on a country road but that's his story backed up by witnesses when the police arrived.

The horse reacted to the High revs of the overtaking sports car by kicking out at the safer drivers passenger door, caving it in and severely damaging the chassis too. The horse got taken into the nearby field where a vet put it down.

I've ridden a bike past horses before now and seen them get spooked. I'll freely admit to having a healthy dose of fear of large horses because they're a prey species naturally skittish and they are big animals to have a bad reaction to you on your bike, you have no protection. IMHO those cyclists were actually very lucky it was such a calm horse. Many other horses on the roads would have resulted in injury I reckon. First riders spook the horse, the later riders suffer for the spooking of the horse. I can easily see that was one possibility of b those riders close passes at speed.

I'm not surprised if motorists say that horses should not be on the roads. They say it any cyclists enough times in comments pages of newspapers. I am surprised by cyclists effectively saying the horse should not have been on the roads. The argument for that is the same as the argument for cyclists not being on the roads. It's an ignorant argument. Lazy argument. Make the roads safer for all not ban some users. However the biggest factor is getting all users to use the roads fairly and responsibly. Driving or riding safely should be one easy action for all road users????
Last edited by Tangled Metal on 19 Jun 2018, 11:50am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4511
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby foxyrider » 19 Jun 2018, 9:35am

Ever since I started riding i've lived in and ridden in a rural landscape. (technically I live in a city atm but the fields are literally 200m away!) I've always had a healthy respect for horses on the road - indeed cows and sheep that I regularly have to contend with - there's hardly a ride where I don't come across at least one horse on the roads.

Compare that to a large lump of the triathletes who spend hours in the gym/pool and even do their bike training on a turbo in the shed (I know they aren't all like that but many are) - they really have no experience of countryside riding so incidents like this are inevitable. It's no excuse and a lot of blame should go on the organisers shoulders here.

It's despicable behaviour but other than making all triathlons 'closed road' I can't see a simple solution.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

pwa
Posts: 10217
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby pwa » 19 Jun 2018, 9:47am

There is a wider question here, touched on earlier, about how a race of any sort can be conducted in a space open to members of the public who are just going about their normal lives. I'm not sure closing roads is viable, because I'd be a bit peeved if I got up one Saturday morning and found my street closed off for somebody else's fun activity. If we cannot rely on individuals to police themselves, what next?

User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 3706
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby NUKe » 19 Jun 2018, 9:54am

awavey wrote:
NUKe wrote:You can call it shameful, but I have a doubt whether it was deliberate. Having seen racer ride into the back of cars, it is very easy to go head down whilst racing especially when you are 100 percent. And not see what is coming especially if you are at the back of other riders
Again the rider should have stopped but adrenalin, does funny things to the mind, and the flight response can kick in.

My own view is whilst the rider is at fault, the event is poorly run if a horse can get on to the circuit , the organiser should accept responsibility as well.


they are open roads, you could meet a horse, a herd of cows, cars (infact there seem to be more than few of those complaining about the event on the original shared facebook posting), fire engines, tractors anything
agreed and this I why I suggest the route should have been better marshalled. If you have ever raced, you would know the most important thing on your mind is winning,
and really are we really saying every single one of those riders was just busy stem staring and got caught out ?
because Im amazed any triathlete ever completes the cycle part if thats how they ride, how do they know where the corners are, do they use the force and just feel for the adverse camber change ? or how do they avoid potholes, manhole covers, dead foxes/hedgehogs, know when the road climbs,dips or even turns, how they do they know they arent about to ride into the back of another rider ?
You have never ridden in a Peloton then, accidents do happen in racing. You get focused on your immediate surroundings, that’s why you see the big pile ups in the tour, you’re not staring at your stem , but probably the back wheel of the guy in front, you are desperately trying to hang onto , I only saw a couple of riders who I would class as dangerous , but yes I am suggesting that they got out forced the wrong way.



sorry its just excusing p**s poor riding IMO, and we aren’t even talking yet about the middle finger retort the rider who clipped the horse is then alleged to have made.
lets stick to the facts, there is enough to go on without the alleged bits, but that would be wrong if true

and it annoys me, because I know there are going to be idiots out on the road in their cars, who next time they see any cyclist, will give them just that little bit less room because of this

I still believe that the rider(s) is being demonised for a badly organised event. The organisers have been too quick to blame the rider. Yes the athletes Should have slowed down and given the horse a wide berth, but in a race you are focused on one thing. I have seen people run into parked cars parked on race circuits. it is not touring and the organisers have an obligation to keep the riders and other road users safe.
NUKe
_____________________________________

pwa
Posts: 10217
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby pwa » 19 Jun 2018, 10:00am

How can anyone justify being focused just on the racing, in a public environment? The space belongs to all, not just those racing. If participants focus just on the race and not on other road users, they should not be racing. If racing means a drop in standards of behaviour, it should not happen.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Jun 2018, 10:10am

pwa wrote:How can anyone justify being focused just on the racing, in a public environment? The space belongs to all, not just those racing. If participants focus just on the race and not on other road users, they should not be racing. If racing means a drop in standards of behaviour, it should not happen.


Explaining something isn't the same as justifying it or advocating it.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5662
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jun 2018, 10:39am

Aren't racing cyclists just cyclists going fast? That's a simple way of putting the fact that when riding a bicycle you have a few responsibilities revolving around your safety and the safety of anyone or anything you encounter when riding.

Riding fast or slow you need to ride within your abilities. Part of those abilities is to see far enough ahead to react safely to hazards. A racing mentality might be what racing cyclists have but that does not mean everything else about being a cyclist on public roads has to go out of the window.

I think the organisers safety talk basically said the same sort of thing, follow the rules or laws of the road. Racing does not excuse safe riding. If it does then open road races surely can not be allowed. Personally I think that is the serious consequences of the inability of racing to be compatible with public use of roads. Not what I'd personally want to see.

Does racing mentality work on the open road?

User avatar
100%JR
Posts: 840
Joined: 31 May 2016, 10:47pm
Location: High Green,Sheffield.

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby 100%JR » 19 Jun 2018, 11:00am

Tangled Metal wrote:I used to know a guy who got his cat written off by a horse that read spooked (a saab so a fairly solid brand of car). It wasn't his fault but the fault of a two seater convertible sports car that overtook him as he overtook the horse safely. I don't know his two cars and a horse can fit on a country road but that's his story backed up by witnesses when the police arrived.

The horse reacted to the High revs of the overtaking sports car by kicking out at the safer drivers passenger door, caving it in and severely damaging the chassis too. The horse got taken into the nearby field where a vet put it down.

I've ridden a bike past horses before now and seen them get spooked. I'll freely admit to having a healthy dose of fear of large horses because they're a prey species naturally skittish and they are big animals to have a bad reaction to you on your bike, you have no protection. IMHO those cyclists were actually very lucky it was such a calm horse. Many other horses on the roads would have resulted in injury I reckon. First riders spook the horse, the later riders suffer for the spooking of the horse. I can easily see that was one possibility of b those riders close passes at speed.

I'm not surprised if motorists say that horses should not be on the roads. They say it any cyclists enough times in comments pages of newspapers. I am surprised by cyclists effectively saying the horse should not have been on the roads. The argument for that is the same as the argument for cyclists not being on the roads. It's an ignorant argument. Lazy argument. Make the roads safer for all not ban some users. However the biggest factor is getting all users to use the roads fairly and responsibly. Driving or riding safely should be one easy action for all road users????

Saab made cats?...maybe that why they went under :lol: :lol:
Canyon Ultimate CF SL
Boardman CX Comp
We hate "speed" Cameras Fracking is the future.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Jun 2018, 11:22am

Tangled Metal wrote:Aren't racing cyclists just cyclists going fast? That's a simple way of putting the fact that when riding a bicycle you have a few responsibilities revolving around your safety and the safety of anyone or anything you encounter when riding.

Riding fast or slow you need to ride within your abilities. Part of those abilities is to see far enough ahead to react safely to hazards. A racing mentality might be what racing cyclists have but that does not mean everything else about being a cyclist on public roads has to go out of the window.

I think the organisers safety talk basically said the same sort of thing, follow the rules or laws of the road. Racing does not excuse safe riding. If it does then open road races surely can not be allowed. Personally I think that is the serious consequences of the inability of racing to be compatible with public use of roads. Not what I'd personally want to see.

Does racing mentality work on the open road?


IMO a couple of things going on. If competitive people are competing in a competition it's hardly a surprise if they prioritise the end rather than the means. The "continue at all costs" approach is inevitably more apparent in competitive cycling than say, soccer, where lying down for a few minutes can be advantageous.

Then there's the group mentality: people in a group - and a bunch of racing cyclists is no exception - will tend to act differently than they would on their own.

A third thing of my couple is the effect of adrenaline which can cloud the judgment: that's why it's sometimes referred to as the "red mist."

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5662
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jun 2018, 11:56am

ibbo68 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I used to know a guy who got his cat written off by a horse that read spooked (a saab so a fairly solid brand of car). It wasn't his fault but the fault of a two seater convertible sports car that overtook him as he overtook the horse safely. I don't know his two cars and a horse can fit on a country road but that's his story backed up by witnesses when the police arrived.

The horse reacted to the High revs of the overtaking sports car by kicking out at the safer drivers passenger door, caving it in and severely damaging the chassis too. The horse got taken into the nearby field where a vet put it down.

I've ridden a bike past horses before now and seen them get spooked. I'll freely admit to having a healthy dose of fear of large horses because they're a prey species naturally skittish and they are big animals to have a bad reaction to you on your bike, you have no protection. IMHO those cyclists were actually very lucky it was such a calm horse. Many other horses on the roads would have resulted in injury I reckon. First riders spook the horse, the later riders suffer for the spooking of the horse. I can easily see that was one possibility of b those riders close passes at speed.

I'm not surprised if motorists say that horses should not be on the roads. They say it any cyclists enough times in comments pages of newspapers. I am surprised by cyclists effectively saying the horse should not have been on the roads. The argument for that is the same as the argument for cyclists not being on the roads. It's an ignorant argument. Lazy argument. Make the roads safer for all not ban some users. However the biggest factor is getting all users to use the roads fairly and responsibly. Driving or riding safely should be one easy action for all road users????

Saab made cats?...maybe that why they went under :lol: :lol:

If they'd moved on to dogs they'd have survived. Who can say no to an Andre puppy 's big brown eyes? Saab missed a trick with that one! :D

In my defence this was not a case of fat fingers but my autocorrect on my phone has it in for me. I don't like cats but no matter how carefully I type car in it autocorrects to cats. Somehow cars has been removed from the dictionary or at least given a lower priority.

Further evidence of this vendetta my phone's autocorrect has against me would be too embarrassing to highlight. Needless to say there's some very common words that I have to pay close attention to. There has been some very funny and embarrassing corrections including words I've never actually typed.

reohn2
Posts: 35853
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jun 2018, 12:00pm

To claim this incident is "minor" frankly is absurd.
The potential for serious injury or even death in such an incident is real,if not more real than a close pass by a motor on a cyclist and potentially with many more people involved.
If the horse had shyed to the left of the first close passing cyclist to the right ,the morons overtaking to the left would have been taken out seriously injured and the horse could've gone on to injured following and innocent cyclists.
It was only the horse being such a calm animal and the rider's excellent horsewomanship that stopped any of that happening.
Relating this incident to motors and cyclists is to miss the point of thread entirely IMO.

Another point,in an anti cycling culture such as the UK,if racers,whether Tri,TT,road racers or just sportive riders,want their sport to continue, they must winkle out and ban such morons from such events and the sooner the better IMHO.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5662
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jun 2018, 12:01pm

So if racing means red mist and other things like that then does that mean racing on open roads is not compatible with safety of all road users?

If you cannot avoid this behaviour because of racing mentality, red mist, etc then open road racing must surely be questioned and potentially changed or cancelled.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Jun 2018, 12:13pm

Tangled Metal wrote:So if racing means red mist and other things like that then does that mean racing on open roads is not compatible with safety of all road users?

If you cannot avoid this behaviour because of racing mentality, red mist, etc then open road racing must surely be questioned and potentially changed or cancelled.


No. It means that Parliament - and a generally anti-cycling Parliament at that - has decided that it's OK, which is why it's permitted.

If we dismount from our high horses here, this incident was regrettable and should never have happened, but it's hardly the basis on which to decide the future of cycling as a sport.