Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

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NUKe
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby NUKe » 19 Jun 2018, 12:16pm

[uote="pwa"]How can anyone justify being focused just on the racing, in a public environment? The space belongs to all, not just those racing. If participants focus just on the race and not on other road users, they should not be racing. If racing means a drop in standards of behaviour, it should not happen.[/quote]
I am not justify what happened, it as Thirdcrank pointed out I was trying to explain what I think happened but if you are racing you have to be focused on the race, or your not going to win. Which Is why I think the blame is more with the organiser and not the contestants. The organiser should make sure the course is appropriately marshalled.

I must point out that I would have slowed up, but then that why I didn’t make pro(tongue in cheek) I didn’t have that killer instinct
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pwa
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby pwa » 19 Jun 2018, 12:31pm

duplicate post. quote thing not working.
Last edited by pwa on 19 Jun 2018, 12:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

pwa
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby pwa » 19 Jun 2018, 12:38pm

NUKe wrote:[uote="pwa"]How can anyone justify being focused just on the racing, in a public environment? The space belongs to all, not just those racing. If participants focus just on the race and not on other road users, they should not be racing. If racing means a drop in standards of behaviour, it should not happen.


Nuke quote:
I am not justify what happened, it as Thirdcrank pointed out I was trying to explain what I think happened but if you are racing you have to be focused on the race, or your not going to win. Which Is why I think the blame is more with the organiser and not the contestants. The organiser should make sure the course is appropriately marshalled.

I must point out that I would have slowed up, but then that why I didn’t make pro(tongue in cheek) I didn’t have that killer instinct[/quote]

Pwa:

But how could you effectively marshal such a spread out field of cyclists? Are you suggesting that other road users should be advised not to use that bit of road? You are certainly not going to have enough marshals to monitor every gate, track or side lane that a horse rider might emerge from.

slowster
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby slowster » 19 Jun 2018, 12:42pm

If the rules for triathlon at that level require that in the cycling section they must ride separately and not draft, because that part is effectively a time trial, presumably that is for safety reasons. If the events at that level were to allow bunched racing, they would require more resources and marshalling than a road race with a massed start, because riders will finish the swim and start the cycling section at varying times, potentially resulting in numerous groups forming on the road.

So the rule about riding the cycling leg as a time trial with no drafting allows the race to be run on public roads with probably no more than the marshalling requirements of an ordinary time trial. Road races are subject to far more restrictions.

The organiser of that triathlon knew this. The video clearly indicates that a large number of riders were evidently riding in a group, not just just two or three riders who were riding solo but in the process of overtaking or being overtaken by each other. That points to a wholesale failure by the organiser to run the event safely: the organiser should have enough resources and control over the race that bunched riding on such a scale will be quickly spotted by a marshall, and those riders IMMEDIATELY stopped by a red flag or similar and told that they have all been disqualified, and to stop racing, with no option to continue and do the running leg. Any riders who fail to do so, should be subject to severe sanction by not only by the race organiser, but also by the governing body for triathlon, e.g. a one year ban from all events.

The fact that this incident occurred should be prompting the governing body to investigate and consider whether that particular event organiser should be sanctioned for failing to ensure safe racing. If the event was not run under the auspices of the sport's governing body, then that probably needs to change: commercial events not under governing bodies should probably not be permitted on public roads.

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100%JR
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby 100%JR » 19 Jun 2018, 1:30pm

I stopped doing Sportives because of the "Red mist" syndrome.Idiots who interpret "Not a Race" as "it's a Race" :x
I've never raced but have seen first hand this type of riding in Sportives so can only imagine what it's like in a "proper" race :?
Unfortunately you'll always get the odd few idiots in any form of cycling event.
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Pastychomper
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Pastychomper » 19 Jun 2018, 1:37pm

Tangled Metal wrote:In my defence this was not a case of fat fingers but my autocorrect on my phone has it in for me. I don't like cats but no matter how carefully I type car in it autocorrects to cats. Somehow cars has been removed from the dictionary or at least given a lower priority.

Further evidence of this vendetta my phone's autocorrect has against me would be too embarrassing to highlight. Needless to say there's some very common words that I have to pay close attention to. There has been some very funny and embarrassing corrections including words I've never actually typed.


If cat were the only example I'd suspect that was some kind of feline plot. As I'm sure you've found, cats seek out humans that don't like them and try to ingratiate themselves in order to cure the dislike. Maybe they've found a way to recruit your 'phone into their plans.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Jun 2018, 2:14pm

Just on the severity of the possible offence, I'd have thought that this would be cut-and-dried cycling without reasonable consideration (s29 RTA 1988) which attracts a maximum penalty of level three on the standard scale = £1,000.

Stretching it to dangerous (which is defined in s 28 RTA 1988) the max is level 4 = £2,500.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198 ... e-of-fines

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Cugel
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Cugel » 19 Jun 2018, 2:15pm

ibbo68 wrote:I stopped doing Sportives because of the "Red mist" syndrome.Idiots who interpret "Not a Race" as "it's a Race" :x
I've never raced but have seen first hand this type of riding in Sportives so can only imagine what it's like in a "proper" race :?
Unfortunately you'll always get the odd few idiots in any form of cycling event.


Incidents like this occur even in well-organised road races with commissars and participants who are experienced and careful. I recall an LVRC road race on the Out Rawcliffe circuit near Blackpool in which one member of Liverpool Mercury was horse-kicked (still attached to his bike) over a ditch and hedge, into a field 6 feet below the road-on-a-dyke we were riding on. The commissar's car slowed right down but one of three horses to be passed took against the tyre-swish of 30-odd cyclists coming up behind, did a little dance and hoofed the unlucky Mercury lad who happened to be at the front of the carefully-proceeding bunch.

This is the nature of racing on public roads. Dangers abound and no one need be acting irresponsibly. Personally I think road racing needs closed circuits or closed roads. The latter are hard to justify if they seriously inconvenience others. The best open-road races are held on very quiet roads out in the sticks.....

But this is the nature of the Out Rawcliffe circuit. Despite all precautions, the Mercury lad went for his short trip through the air.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby The utility cyclist » 19 Jun 2018, 4:52pm

All within the last month that I found in less than 5 minutes.
Where is the national outrage https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/s ... e-12641554
Where is the national outrage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-44532687
Where is the national outrage https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... l-14726229
Where is the national outrage https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/ ... t-14720016
Where is the national outrage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44304310
Where is the national outrage https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... d-12612706
Where is the national outrage https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... w-14687178
Where is the national outrage https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... d-9001696/

The over the top reaction to this is ludicrous.

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NUKe
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby NUKe » 19 Jun 2018, 5:06pm

Just being investigating this event, it seems to be the triathlon equivalent of a sportive, Any idiot that wants to can take part? They use catch all, legal speak to put the onus on the riders So its not a real race, or is it I don’t know? They are in a grey area, between Sportive and Race.

They say:
“Some of our triathlons have cycling routes which contain open road sections. These areas of the course will be shared with the general public and therefore open to live traffic. It is the responsibility of the rider to adhere to the Highway Code and be alert to other road users and potential dangers.
Please put yourself and others safety first when taking part in our events. This will be reiterated in the Event Guide which participants receive 4 weeks in advance of the event, and is also view able on the specific event website. Additionally, it is reinforced in the pre-race safety briefing before you set off on event day”
.

One comment I saw from the article was that the horse owner had seen no notification of the Race hence why she had taken her horse on that road, now although we don’t know what signage had been placed, but warning Road signs

I still believe that the rider(s) is being demonised for a badly organised event. The organisers have been too quick to blame the rider. Yes the athletes should have slowed down and given the horse a wide berth. But if you are going to set large groups of people off then you should take some responsibility other than telling them they are responsible.
NUKe

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brynpoeth
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby brynpoeth » 19 Jun 2018, 5:24pm

Pastychomper wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:In my defence this was not a case of fat fingers but my autocorrect on my phone has it in for me. I don't like cats but no matter how carefully I type car in it autocorrects to cats. Somehow cars has been removed from the dictionary or at least given a lower priority.

Further evidence of this vendetta my phone's autocorrect has against me would be too embarrassing to highlight. Needless to say there's some very common words that I have to pay close attention to. There has been some very funny and embarrassing corrections including words I've never actually typed.


If cat were the only example I'd suspect that was some kind of feline plot. As I'm sure you've found, cats seek out humans that don't like them and try to ingratiate themselves in order to cure the dislike. Maybe they've found a way to recruit your 'phone into their plans.

Your phone is so smart, it thinks you dislike cats but hate cars more
You could try using "feline", "tiger", "auto", "vehicle" :wink:

In German we have a bit of fun with the phrase "faehrt gern Auto"
Applied to a dog it means both:
Likes riding in a car
Likes driving a car
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
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Norman H
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Norman H » 19 Jun 2018, 6:01pm

NUKe wrote:Just being investigating this event, it seems to be the triathlon equivalent of a sportive, Any idiot that wants to can take part? They use catch all, legal speak to put the onus on the riders So its not a real race, or is it I don’t know? They are in a grey area, between Sportive and Race.

They say:
“Some of our triathlons have cycling routes which contain open road sections. These areas of the course will be shared with the general public and therefore open to live traffic. It is the responsibility of the rider to adhere to the Highway Code and be alert to other road users and potential dangers.
Please put yourself and others safety first when taking part in our events. This will be reiterated in the Event Guide which participants receive 4 weeks in advance of the event, and is also view able on the specific event website. Additionally, it is reinforced in the pre-race safety briefing before you set off on event day”


Here's a link to the said race pack.

http://1i5xzk3a0sxv1sgs1s21c5fb.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/RoyalWindsorTriathlon_ParticipationPack_2018-min.pdf

On page 14 it states:


“The roads are open to live traffic and you MUST obey all Highway Code rules and road regulations at all times. You must give way where required at junctions and roundabouts, be aware of your fellow cyclists and other traffic users, and obey all road regulations, highway signage and any specific event signage.

It later repeats this:

“Please follow the Highway Code and be respectful of other road users. Please ride single file and observe non drafting rules.

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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby brynpoeth » 19 Jun 2018, 6:09pm

Pastychomper wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:In my defence this was not a case of fat fingers but my autocorrect on my phone has it in for me. I don't like cats but no matter how carefully I type car in it autocorrects to cats. Somehow cars has been removed from the dictionary or at least given a lower priority.

Further evidence of this vendetta my phone's autocorrect has against me would be too embarrassing to highlight. Needless to say there's some very common words that I have to pay close attention to. There has been some very funny and embarrassing corrections including words I've never actually typed.


If cat were the only example I'd suspect that was some kind of feline plot. As I'm sure you've found, cats seek out humans that don't like them and try to ingratiate themselves in order to cure the dislike. Maybe they've found a way to recruit your 'phone into their plans.

Your profile says you are a quadrupole jockey
What is that?
Do you have an interest to declare to the house? :wink:
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
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reohn2
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jun 2018, 7:01pm

The utility cyclist wrote:All within the last month that I found in less than 5 minutes.
Where is the national outrage https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/s ... e-12641554
Where is the national outrage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-44532687
Where is the national outrage https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... l-14726229
Where is the national outrage https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/ ... t-14720016
Where is the national outrage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44304310
Where is the national outrage https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... d-12612706
Where is the national outrage https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... w-14687178
Where is the national outrage https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... d-9001696/

The over the top reaction to this is ludicrous.

Where is the national outrage to the incident in the OP?
I've equal outrage and sympathy for the incidents you link to but those aren't the incidents being discussed in this thread.
Your posts so far on the OP seem to me to be trying to turn attention away from the thread's main points and toward other incidents by terming it as a minor incident.
By all means hi-light the diabolical behaviour of UK drivers but not by changing the subject matter of this thread!
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Triathlete hits horse on road. Shameful!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jun 2018, 8:16pm

Whataboutery!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/whataboutery&ved=2ahUKEwjzos35p-DbAhWqLsAKHeA_BiIQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0rbCdy3iQbbABH3corDaNu

In response to those raising other issues and deflecting the discussion to other groups of road users. If you want to discuss motorcycle deaths why not discuss them on a thread about them. If you have something to contribute to the issue raised by this cyclist / horse rider incident then I suggest this is the thread for that.

As I see it the issues relate to race organization, race mentality, racing on open roads and whether there can be any way of ensuring safe racing on open roads. I don't see the link to motorcycle death or other accidents.