North West Moorland

[pwa]

I know the area too. That water is normally considered valuable drinking water for the Liverpool area, isn't it?

It is.
What's your point?

But I'm pretty sure the reservoirs would be too confined for one of those fixed wing scooping aircraft.

Agreed.
I would've thought helicopters are particularly well suited to dowsing such fires, and the more of them the better.
The are plenty of flat fields not far away for refuelling,it's a job the armed forces would lap up as a training exercise whilst providing a service to the community and wildlife.

The point about Liverpool's drinking water is that chucking it on Winter Hill might leave them thirsty if it goes on for too long. But they are pretty big reservoirs.

[reohn2]

I'm wondering that if they had shorter shifts times and there were more of them

It would probably take too long to recruit & train them!

With current staffing levels (as a result of years of cuts) they would probably have to pretty much abandon other firefighting duties to do that at present. They have got firefighters in from other parts - Blackpool & Tyne and Wear are two that I know of.

That was my point,the cut backs have left big holes in coverage,it's the same with police and other emergency services.
I think we're of the same mind on the problems caused.

Ironically, living halfway up the side of Winter Hill I need to watch the TV coverage to see anything. The only thing affecting us is road closures & the regular thudding of the chopper flying around. I think Chorley & over that way have had most of the smoke problems.

I was riding through Haigh and Little Scotland earlier and could see clearly the damaged caused,half the moor is black,I don't know what it's like on the Belmont side but Imagine it won't be good
And all because some mindless moron thought he'd have a bit of a laugh by lighting a grass fire

[reohn2]

The point about Liverpool's drinking water is that chucking it on Winter Hill might leave them thirsty if it goes on for too long. But they are pretty big reservoirs.

I shouldn't think even 10 helicopters bucketing water out of those rezzers for a week or two would drop the water level appreciably.

[reohn2]

Scooping up water with a bucket while flying might be harder in real life than in adventure films

It's being done now by one helicopter pilot,I don't think army or air force pilots are any less skilled,just not on the job helping out.
The question is why aren't they

[Cyril Haearn]

The reservoirs have an awful lot of capacity and reserve, often enough they are empty in summer, there are alternatives

Besides, Liverpool "steals" Welsh Water from Llyn Celyn, that did us a favour mind, Gwynfor Evans and Plaid were provoked into action
Cofio Tryweryn!
Many years later Liverpool apologised for drowning the valley, a bit like Justin Truedau, the sorriest politrickian

Not to mention Haweswater, the Elan Valley, Llyn Efyrnwy ..

[pwa]

There was a time when amateurs with beaters were encouraged to help out on moorland fires. In the mid 1980s I was a volunteer who did that on moorland immediately east of Winter Hill, and along with four or five others I put out several modest scale grass fires before they could get too serious. Professional firefighters didn't even have to be called out for those fires. I'm not suggesting amateurs should be wading in with these big fires, but if amateurs could put out the small fires they might sometimes not get so big they needed the professional firefighters.

[reohn2]

There was a time when amateurs with beaters were encouraged to help out on moorland fires. In the mid 1980s I was a volunteer who did that on moorland immediately east of Winter Hill, and along with four or five others I put out several modest scale grass fires before they could get too serious. Professional firefighters didn't even have to be called out for those fires. I'm not suggesting amateurs should be wading in with these big fires, but if amateurs could put out the small fires they might sometimes not get so big they needed the professional firefighters.

I think you're right.If a volunteer force could be mustered quickly and directed by professionals,such situations as on Saddleworth and Winter Hill wouldn't get out of hand in the first place.

FWIW,in the past 24 hours I've seen a few motorists flicking fag ash out of car windows,and I despair at times when riding through beautiful scenery to see litter by the side of the road,it only needs a broken bottle in strong sunshine to start a fire....... ......prevention is always better than cure

[Vantage]

I had a ride along the L&L from Haigh Hall and onto the Bridgewater Canal yesterday. There was a fire crew on some grassland across from Pennington Flash dousing a fair sized fire and there lots of little blackened spots along the whole canal path to Roe Green. They're everywhere.
Apparently the mayor of manchester has called for extra provisions from central government to help with the Saddleworth and Winterhill fires. Unless Theresa Mays knickers catch fire, I doubt much will happen.

[Vorpal]

There was a time when amateurs with beaters were encouraged to help out on moorland fires. In the mid 1980s I was a volunteer who did that on moorland immediately east of Winter Hill, and along with four or five others I put out several modest scale grass fires before they could get too serious. Professional firefighters didn't even have to be called out for those fires. I'm not suggesting amateurs should be wading in with these big fires, but if amateurs could put out the small fires they might sometimes not get so big they needed the professional firefighters.

I think you're right.If a volunteer force could be mustered quickly and directed by professionals,such situations as on Saddleworth and Winter Hill wouldn't get out of hand in the first place.

FWIW,in the past 24 hours I've seen a few motorists flicking fag ash out of car windows,and I despair at times when riding through beautiful scenery to see litter by the side of the road,it only needs a broken bottle in strong sunshine to start a fire....... ......prevention is always better than cure

Volunteer or auxiliary firefighters are used extensively in North America both for wild fires, and as support in rural communities where large fires are rare. Volunteer and auxiliary firefighters usually have another full time job, but can be called out to a fire when needed. Employers have to allow them to respond to emergencies, but don't have to pay them. Auxiliaries are typically paid an hourly wage for annual training and emergency response. Volunteers are unpaid, but typically are provided with training and equipment, and reimbursed for some expenses.

[reohn2]

There was a time when amateurs with beaters were encouraged to help out on moorland fires. In the mid 1980s I was a volunteer who did that on moorland immediately east of Winter Hill, and along with four or five others I put out several modest scale grass fires before they could get too serious. Professional firefighters didn't even have to be called out for those fires. I'm not suggesting amateurs should be wading in with these big fires, but if amateurs could put out the small fires they might sometimes not get so big they needed the professional firefighters.

I think you're right.If a volunteer force could be mustered quickly and directed by professionals,such situations as on Saddleworth and Winter Hill wouldn't get out of hand in the first place.

FWIW,in the past 24 hours I've seen a few motorists flicking fag ash out of car windows,and I despair at times when riding through beautiful scenery to see litter by the side of the road,it only needs a broken bottle in strong sunshine to start a fire....... ......prevention is always better than cure

Volunteer or auxiliary firefighters are used extensively in North America both for wild fires, and as support in rural communities where large fires are rare. Volunteer and auxiliary firefighters usually have another full time job, but can be called out to a fire when needed. Employers have to allow them to respond to emergencies, but don't have to pay them. Auxiliaries are typically paid an hourly wage for annual training and emergency response. Volunteers are unpaid, but typically are provided with training and equipment, and reimbursed for some expenses.

Thinks... UK Territorial army perhaps?

[reohn2]

Apparently the mayor of manchester has called for extra provisions from central government to help with the Saddleworth and Winterhill fires. Unless Theresa Mays knickers catch fire, I doubt much will happen.

It would put Brexit on the back burner

[Bonefishblues]

I think you're right.If a volunteer force could be mustered quickly and directed by professionals,such situations as on Saddleworth and Winter Hill wouldn't get out of hand in the first place.

FWIW,in the past 24 hours I've seen a few motorists flicking fag ash out of car windows,and I despair at times when riding through beautiful scenery to see litter by the side of the road,it only needs a broken bottle in strong sunshine to start a fire....... ......prevention is always better than cure

Volunteer or auxiliary firefighters are used extensively in North America both for wild fires, and as support in rural communities where large fires are rare. Volunteer and auxiliary firefighters usually have another full time job, but can be called out to a fire when needed. Employers have to allow them to respond to emergencies, but don't have to pay them. Auxiliaries are typically paid an hourly wage for annual training and emergency response. Volunteers are unpaid, but typically are provided with training and equipment, and reimbursed for some expenses.

Thinks... UK Territorial army perhaps?

IIRC they also have convict firefighters too, don't they, as part of their rehab. I recall a very affecting interview with a lady prisoner who had been fighting the California fires last year whose sense of self-worth had clearly been much enhanced by the plaudits she and her colleagues had been receiving from the public.

Now there's a win-win if ever I saw one.

[reohn2]

Volunteer or auxiliary firefighters are used extensively in North America both for wild fires, and as support in rural communities where large fires are rare. Volunteer and auxiliary firefighters usually have another full time job, but can be called out to a fire when needed. Employers have to allow them to respond to emergencies, but don't have to pay them. Auxiliaries are typically paid an hourly wage for annual training and emergency response. Volunteers are unpaid, but typically are provided with training and equipment, and reimbursed for some expenses.

Thinks... UK Territorial army perhaps?

IIRC they also have convict firefighters too, don't they, as part of their rehab. I recall a very affecting interview with a lady prisoner who had been fighting the California fires last year whose sense of self-worth had clearly been much enhanced by the plaudits she and her colleagues had been receiving from the public.

Now there's a win-win if ever I saw one.

Quite right.
I've held back on this thread from saying that prisons are full!

[Postboxer]

I vaguely remember seeing fire beaters stacked somewhere when I was young and maybe asking my parents what they were. I can't remember where it was though, it may have been in France. It seems it would be better to react quicker and call in everyone possible as soon as the fire starts spreading. It was burning for days before they got help from the army and then reports said it was only 100 men. They could appeal to the public and lay on buses from various pick up points to take people to be trained, then onto the affected areas, if only to spread out and marshal adjacent areas to make sure no new fires start.

Regarding helicopters, if we don't have the equipment and skills to fill up directly from reservoirs, surely they could just pick up already filled tanks from the shore and deliver them to the fire. I'm not sure how the firemen are getting their water, is it being piped directly or is there a convoy of fire engines going back and forth?

[pwa]

I vaguely remember seeing fire beaters stacked somewhere when I was young and maybe asking my parents what they were. I can't remember where it was though, it may have been in France. It seems it would be better to react quicker and call in everyone possible as soon as the fire starts spreading. It was burning for days before they got help from the army and then reports said it was only 100 men. They could appeal to the public and lay on buses from various pick up points to take people to be trained, then onto the affected areas, if only to spread out and marshal adjacent areas to make sure no new fires start.

Regarding helicopters, if we don't have the equipment and skills to fill up directly from reservoirs, surely they could just pick up already filled tanks from the shore and deliver them to the fire. I'm not sure how the firemen are getting their water, is it being piped directly or is there a convoy of fire engines going back and forth?

Fire beaters used to be stored vertically, often supported by a pole or a fence post, adjacent to combustible landscapes such as forestry or moorland. They were left like that so that they could be used by anyone who just happened to be passing. And on a new fire they are surprisingly effective. I imagine they are much less effective once the fire has migrated downwards into the peat.