Toucan with amber Countdown in Doncaster

[MikeF]

Is the count down a signal that motorists can mow anyone down regardless when it reaches zero? If not what's it's purpose?

[Pete Owens]

Spot on. They are a horrible american import, the sole purpose of which is to chivy slower pedestrians out of the way of the all-important motors as quickly as possible. If you can't make it all the way across by the count of zero prepare to be mown down.

There is no excuse in the UK for not using puffin crossings with pedestrian detection so the vehicle traffic is held on red for as long as it takes to cross. Though zebras are superior both in terms of pedestrian priority and safety.

[tim-b]

Hi
I guess that's the point? By discouraging pedestrians (and cyclists) from crossing the mighty motor vehicle can flow; you wouldn't want a continuous line of walkists and cyclists being detected on the crossing and the traffic lights being stuck on red, would you
Regards
tim-b

[foxyrider]

Is the count down a signal that motorists can mow anyone down regardless when it reaches zero? If not what's it's purpose?

IME of crossings with a countdown it's never been anything to do with crossing time but rather an indicator of how long until it cycles to green for peds / bikes. Those i've used have had ample crossing time allowed - it's not a hurry up thing but a guide to waiting time.

[thirdcrank]

Can anybody point to any official guidelines on these. I've no knowledge at all here, but I was under the impression that they counted down to the end of the green man rather than the green man starting to flash.
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PS I've done a bit of googling but I can't find anything official. It seems they were a TfL venture/ experiment around 2010 when Bozzer was mayor, although this Doncaster example suggests they spread more widely. Everything I've read suggests that they show the time left to the end of the green man rather than the start.

[Cyril Haearn]

Spot on. They are a horrible american import, the sole purpose of which is to chivy slower pedestrians out of the way of the all-important motors as quickly as possible. If you can't make it all the way across by the count of zero prepare to be mown down.

There is no excuse in the UK for not using puffin crossings with pedestrian detection so the vehicle traffic is held on red for as long as it takes to cross. Though zebras are superior both in terms of pedestrian priority and safety.

I do not like zebras, the motons just slow down but do not stop, often they ignore people waiting and do not stop or they urge one to walk across, - 1, cannae see how they could be safer

[SA_SA_SA]

Is the count down a signal that motorists can mow anyone down regardless when it reaches zero? If not what's it's purpose?

It replaces the blackout which was a rather dumb 'indication' in my view, and ripe for replacing with an amber signal and the blackout is just as much a clue to on-road traffic,,,,, .Jumping red traffic signals remains illegal and should be dealt with by enforcement eg RLJ cameras / the police). I have seen cars jump blacked out farside Toucans whilst pedestrians still crossing because they thought had waited ;long enough....

At fixed-time crossings It allows faster pedestrians to work out they still have time to cross ie it unusually treats pedestrians as competent adults*. You can treat it like that or more like a stopping amber or a hybrid (ie only start if only a few seconds of count down has elapsed) as one sees fit. I don't see what the problem is, people who wish to treat it as a 'don't start' nowsignal or free to do so: again treating pedestrians as adults. I do not think what other countries they are used in matters: some responses seem a bit kneejerk to me...
Using something viewed as successful (tested) in other countries just makes introducing it easier. I always wanted an amber pedestrian signal: replacing the blackout with a countdown as used elsewhere seems perfectly reasonable and does not necessary imply moving pedestrians out of way as soon as possible: setting the max clearance time at a Puffin too low is just the same but the poor pedestrians will have no warning....

I reckon you could use countdown at smart crossings by showing the (long enough for slowest person) maximum remaining time and if crossing empties early, just show amber e.g. -- for 2 seconds, and if remains empty back to red figure otherwise back to still running countdown...

PCats (Countdown) signals are not used with flashing green figures/cycles (and anyway no new pelicans may now be installed).

As I said before I do not like Puffins because of nearside only displays: if you want smart crossings use farside signals. I want Puffins to be abandoned and replaced** by farside equipped crossings. I wish they(Puffins) had never been invented (smart crossings already existed as Toucans and should have been developed into one-cans with kerb detectors ie all the smart features of Puffins minus the dumb nearside-only displays....).

**Though, if they have bleepers and are on narrower two lane roads I suppose they could be replaced last,,,,,,

NB I too do like footbridges: I wish they would keep bridges whenever they fit a signalised crossing: they are not mutually exclusive...


*rather than the usual pretending that the red figure has legal authority etc..