Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

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pwa
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby pwa » 5 Feb 2019, 10:48pm

drossall wrote:
pwa wrote:As far as I am concerned, if I am walking I am a pedestrian. Even if I am pushing a bike. I'd take no bull on that. I'd take it as far as I could if necessary, but nobody has ever challenged me on that.

Interesting, but a court's opinion can be difficult to reject quite so easily. Happily for all of us, the last time we discussed this, there was limited evidence of relevant cases going to court, with the balance being that someone pushing a bike is probably a pedestrian. Unhappily for you, you seem to be volunteering yourself to be the one in court testing this :lol:


Well, erm ..... I'll think about it.

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gaz
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby gaz » 5 Feb 2019, 11:32pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Pushing a cycle along a road you would still be pushing a vehicle - though that suggests that if a light fails then you can't push yourself to the next shop, which is clearly daft (so entirely possible).

It would be daft if the law said that, fortunately (for cycles <801mm width) it doesn't.

RVLR 2009 has specific exemptions that cover a bicycle being wheeled.
Exemptions—Vehicles drawn or propelled by hand

9. A vehicle drawn or propelled by hand which has an overall width, including any load, not exceeding 800 mm is required by these Regulations to be fitted with lamps and reflectors only when it is used on the carriageway of a road between sunset and sunrise other than–

(a)close to the near side or left-hand edge of the carriageway, or

(b)to cross the carriageway.

Wheel it in the gutter, cross the road when you reach the shop (if it's on the other side). Then try to buy a replacement light that meets regs :wink: .

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Feb 2019, 8:22am

So if I add a side bag to my trike I can’t wheel it any more... that’s. Arbitrary.
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londoncommuter0000
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 9:30am

The utility cyclist wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
pwa wrote:We've all encountered stuck road works lights. The question is always "how long do I wait before I can assume it is stuck?"


When I'm 'stuck' at traffic lights that are either borked, or else where an induction loop is not being triggered because I'm on a carbon bike, I just dismount and walk.

Simple. And entirely legal.

As others have said, we've had the discussion on here before re propelling your vehicle and some saying unless it is off the floor blah blah blah, a few scenarios have cropped up where plod have stuck their oar in accusing cyclists of running the lights because they were pushing their bikes. :roll:
I've got off on occasion to push the bike around the corner when I know there's a long phase and I'm first up or it might benefit me to get ahead if there's other issues I can see, if plod want to argue the toss I'm simply going to ignore them until they do something else in which case they can demand name etc all they like, they won't get squat from me.


The one rule of thumb you can - indeed, must - apply to all interactions with the police, is that they will lie. All. The. Time.

There are undoubtedly 'good' coppers. But the system is designed to weed them out, until it is just the mendacious sociopaths who remain. If a policeman tells you it's Wednesday, ask for a second opinion.

Another rule is that they are by and large entirely ignorant of the law. I see this every single day. I've seen coppers arrest and charge people with offences which do not even exist. So when you say that plod will get involved, you can count on it. They've charged cyclists with 'speeding' on public roads before, and in some cases, the poor sap has just entered a guilty plea. And as magistrates aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either - coupled with the almost inevitable (given the social strata whence most magistrates originate) propensity to believe every word the police spout, however preposterous - a fine is usually imposed, and everyone goes about their business, content that 'the system' has worked as it should.
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kwackers
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby kwackers » 6 Feb 2019, 10:00am

The upshot of all of the nonsense is that I'm more than happy to hop off a bicycle and push it whenever and wherever I see fit - even if there are a car full of plods to the side of me (which has on occasion happened).

In the (extremely) unlikely event that plod tries to nobble me for something then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (even if it means dismounting first).

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 10:04am

kwackers wrote:The upshot of all of the nonsense is that I'm more than happy to hop off a bicycle and push it whenever and wherever I see fit - even if there are a car full of plods to the side of me (which has on occasion happened).

In the (extremely) unlikely event that plod tries to nobble me for something then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (even if it means dismounting first).


Sterling advice.

I would also add that if and when plod nick you for (as an example) pushing your bicycle through red lights, then the best thing you can do is to shut up. Don't argue with the officer. Don't even get stroppy, because he will arrest you and then will stand up in court and swear on a stack of bibles that you 'threatened' him. The police do not like it when their authority is questioned. Just get the interaction with the police over, and then get a decent brief who's used to dealing with cycling cases.
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Mick F
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby Mick F » 6 Feb 2019, 2:50pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:They've charged cyclists with 'speeding' on public roads before, and in some cases, the poor sap has just entered a guilty plea. And as magistrates aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either - coupled with the almost inevitable (given the social strata whence most magistrates originate) propensity to believe every word the police spout, however preposterous - a fine is usually imposed, and everyone goes about their business, content that 'the system' has worked as it should.
I have an example of this, and I was livid when I was told and didn't believe it, but was assured that the cyclist involved paid up.

They wouldn't get me on a charge of exceeding the speed limit. :shock:
Maybe cycling furiously or recklessly, but as I don't do those things, they couldn't.
Mick F. Cornwall

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby The utility cyclist » 6 Feb 2019, 7:09pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
When I'm 'stuck' at traffic lights that are either borked, or else where an induction loop is not being triggered because I'm on a carbon bike, I just dismount and walk.

Simple. And entirely legal.

As others have said, we've had the discussion on here before re propelling your vehicle and some saying unless it is off the floor blah blah blah, a few scenarios have cropped up where plod have stuck their oar in accusing cyclists of running the lights because they were pushing their bikes. :roll:
I've got off on occasion to push the bike around the corner when I know there's a long phase and I'm first up or it might benefit me to get ahead if there's other issues I can see, if plod want to argue the toss I'm simply going to ignore them until they do something else in which case they can demand name etc all they like, they won't get squat from me.


The one rule of thumb you can - indeed, must - apply to all interactions with the police, is that they will lie. All. The. Time.

There are undoubtedly 'good' coppers. But the system is designed to weed them out, until it is just the mendacious sociopaths who remain. If a policeman tells you it's Wednesday, ask for a second opinion.

Another rule is that they are by and large entirely ignorant of the law. I see this every single day.
I've seen coppers arrest and charge people with offences which do not even exist. So when you say that plod will get involved, you can count on it. They've charged cyclists with 'speeding' on public roads before, and in some cases, the poor sap has just entered a guilty plea. And as magistrates aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either - coupled with the almost inevitable (given the social strata whence most magistrates originate) propensity to believe every word the police spout, however preposterous - a fine is usually imposed, and everyone goes about their business, content that 'the system' has worked as it should.

Oh yes, have met a few of those, luckily none on cycle, in car though a few times when I was doing nothing wrong. My first rubbish encounter was not long after passing my test, was accused of stealing alloy wheels from some high up copper in the locality (this was their excuse anyway), got the sweeny style one up the back, one on the front at an angle despite me pulling over straight away (I thought they were simply wanting to come past quickly). They apparently targeted me on the basis of having the same colour car :roll: Got a producer for my troubles despite there being no reason to as I'd done nothing wrong.

I've had the, 'you were going some, we struggled to keep up with you' - we were on a 40 approaching an elongated roundabout near where I live, I had a 75bhp 1.3 carb Astra, they had a 2.0l 16v Vectra, must have been a real struggle to catch me whilst doing 38mph!

A couple of years ago I was threatened with arrest because I didn't have my driving licence on me (I've never carried it), I just laughed at him when he said it was in the Road Traffic Act, he and his pal also made up that my tyres were screeching as I cornered around the mini rbt (despite me going around it properly and on all 4 wheels), refused to look back at his video 'evidence' when I told him how it was he who failed to signal, had poor lane discipline and cut across the mini roundabout so should be having a word to himself about the manner of his driving. The baby then deliberately obstructed me by driving at 10mph and only turned off to keep in front of me as I indicated to turn, he then tanked back down the road exceeding the speed limit (now 30) massively.

Worst was when a sergeant tried to intimidate me off from making a complaint of dangerous driving, that ended up with both he and an Inspector getting warnings on their record. The Insp trying to cover him and blew me out leaving me standing in the rain outside a station because he couldn't be buttocked to turn up to our meeting :twisted:

It's not surprising that people on bikes who are assaulted and injured by motorists have no faith in them and don't bother to report because they'll do next to nothing, even when injured or killed they are rarely on your side, the Michael Mason case and indeed the Rhyl case were 4 people were slaughtered, the Inspector lied about speed being a factor (when it clearly was) was despicable, the Mason case were the MET essentially blamed Mason for the collision was disgusting.

The less I have to do with them the better frankly.

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 8:18pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:As others have said, we've had the discussion on here before re propelling your vehicle and some saying unless it is off the floor blah blah blah, a few scenarios have cropped up where plod have stuck their oar in accusing cyclists of running the lights because they were pushing their bikes. :roll:
I've got off on occasion to push the bike around the corner when I know there's a long phase and I'm first up or it might benefit me to get ahead if there's other issues I can see, if plod want to argue the toss I'm simply going to ignore them until they do something else in which case they can demand name etc all they like, they won't get squat from me.


The one rule of thumb you can - indeed, must - apply to all interactions with the police, is that they will lie. All. The. Time.

There are undoubtedly 'good' coppers. But the system is designed to weed them out, until it is just the mendacious sociopaths who remain. If a policeman tells you it's Wednesday, ask for a second opinion.

Another rule is that they are by and large entirely ignorant of the law. I see this every single day.
I've seen coppers arrest and charge people with offences which do not even exist. So when you say that plod will get involved, you can count on it. They've charged cyclists with 'speeding' on public roads before, and in some cases, the poor sap has just entered a guilty plea. And as magistrates aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either - coupled with the almost inevitable (given the social strata whence most magistrates originate) propensity to believe every word the police spout, however preposterous - a fine is usually imposed, and everyone goes about their business, content that 'the system' has worked as it should.

Oh yes, have met a few of those, luckily none on cycle, in car though a few times when I was doing nothing wrong. My first rubbish encounter was not long after passing my test, was accused of stealing alloy wheels from some high up copper in the locality (this was their excuse anyway), got the sweeny style one up the back, one on the front at an angle despite me pulling over straight away (I thought they were simply wanting to come past quickly). They apparently targeted me on the basis of having the same colour car :roll: Got a producer for my troubles despite there being no reason to as I'd done nothing wrong.

I've had the, 'you were going some, we struggled to keep up with you' - we were on a 40 approaching an elongated roundabout near where I live, I had a 75bhp 1.3 carb Astra, they had a 2.0l 16v Vectra, must have been a real struggle to catch me whilst doing 38mph!

A couple of years ago I was threatened with arrest because I didn't have my driving licence on me (I've never carried it), I just laughed at him when he said it was in the Road Traffic Act, he and his pal also made up that my tyres were screeching as I cornered around the mini rbt (despite me going around it properly and on all 4 wheels), refused to look back at his video 'evidence' when I told him how it was he who failed to signal, had poor lane discipline and cut across the mini roundabout so should be having a word to himself about the manner of his driving. The baby then deliberately obstructed me by driving at 10mph and only turned off to keep in front of me as I indicated to turn, he then tanked back down the road exceeding the speed limit (now 30) massively.

Worst was when a sergeant tried to intimidate me off from making a complaint of dangerous driving, that ended up with both he and an Inspector getting warnings on their record. The Insp trying to cover him and blew me out leaving me standing in the rain outside a station because he couldn't be buttocked to turn up to our meeting :twisted:

It's not surprising that people on bikes who are assaulted and injured by motorists have no faith in them and don't bother to report because they'll do next to nothing, even when injured or killed they are rarely on your side, the Michael Mason case and indeed the Rhyl case were 4 people were slaughtered, the Inspector lied about speed being a factor (when it clearly was) was despicable, the Mason case were the MET essentially blamed Mason for the collision was disgusting.

The less I have to do with them the better frankly.


And then they wonder why so many people hate them.

(let me just add here that I do not 'hate' the police. I consider the vast majority of them to be lazy, feckless liars. Management is utterly atrocious, and their training (which used to be second to none) is woeful. If I were asked what solution I have (and I realise that no one gives a [insert some fæcal synonym here] what I think), it would be to disband the police and to reconstitute it from scratch)

But of course, I have more chance of winning the Euromillions rollover than seeing that happen.
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