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Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 4 Nov 2018, 5:59pm
by Cunobelin
mjr wrote:Cunobelin wrote:Bikes aren't cars. Never have been and never will be.
Once we realise that we can design proper facilities that doesn't assume that everything using it is a "vehicle"
However they do share the same space, and the same rules. Behaving and obeying those rules makes everyone more predictable and allows appropriate response.
I agree with some of what you write but the above is generally untrue. The "rules for drivers" and "rules for cyclists" sections of the Highway Code are very different. We do not share all the same rules, plus each has spaces the other cannot use: motorways and cycleways.
You are right,perhaps a better phrase would be “common rules”
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 11:00pm
by MikeF
kwackers wrote:Doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, not only does everyone not obey the rules but it turns out very few do and when they do for most people they simply cherry pick the ones they obey and the others are just cheeky little misdemeanours - unless done by a cyclist when it makes their anti-cyclist neurons fire like crazy.
Indeed. How many motorists stick below speed limits? A cyclist jumping a red light or riding on the pavement is usually just an irritation, but a the same by a motor vehicle is a danger. Even a cyclist getting ahead of a stationary queue of motor vehicles by using a cycle lane can be an irritation to some motorists, especially when they passed me half a mile back.
On two occasions recently I stopped at pedestrian controlled lights, only to be overtaken by a car.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 3:48pm
by rareposter
Bit of a thread bump and ignoring the obviously trolling OP...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7518307590This is a German study and rather than just counting how many bloody cyclists jumped lights it looks at HOW they did it, the type of bike they were on and the type of infrastructure in use.
Of particular interest if you can't be bothered reading the whole thing is this phrase in the summary:
t should be noted, however, that, despite the fact that we observed far more than 1000 cases of red light running, we did not observe a single safety critical situation.In other words, they saw lots of cyclists disobey a red light. But none of those cases presented any additional danger to the cyclist or to other road users. I've said this before on other forums in the seemingly never-ending red light debates; when a cyclist junps a red light it's almost always done for reaosns of convenience (not losing momentum or at least, not having to actually stop) and/or safety (moving away from a left-turning vehicle or getting a head start into a lane change). It's never done from a position of putting themselves into MORE danger.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 7:21pm
by Cyril Haearn
Right again rareposter
There are several junctions where I cycle off a moment before green, if I wait for green I am endangered by motrons. The lights are set for high capacity, not safety first
The least unsafe thing to do is to break the law, or one could take a different longer route sometimes
When driving I stop, apply the handbrake, engage neutral, wait for green
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 11:12pm
by PH
Thanks for the link, it made interesting reading, though it's a pity you were so selective with your quoting, maybe the complete paragraph would have been better though it's somewhat at odds with your analysis
It should be noted, however, that, despite the fact that we observed far more than 1000 cases of red light running, we did not observe a single safety critical situation. While this, by no means, should be considered as evidence that this behaviour is safe, it points to a relevant gap in research. We know, for example, from police reports, that individual crashes can be blamed on cases of red light running. Also, on a theoretical level, it can be argued that road users behaving in a predictable manner (which includes, most of the time, behaviour in compliance with road rules, e.g., stopping on red) is safer than unpredictable behaviour. Nevertheless, as far as we are aware, there is has been no quantification of the crash risk in relation to cyclist red light running. While it is reasonable to assume that stopping on red is safer than not stopping, so far, there is no way of telling how serious the issue is. Also, given that our results show that red light running rates depend on a variety of factors, it would not be surprising if also the crash risk as a result of running a red light would differ considerably. But again, information is lacking.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 9:07am
by [XAP]Bob
I don't know if it *is* 'reasonable to assume' that given the rest of the research.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 9:20am
by AlaninWales
[XAP]Bob wrote:I don't know if it *is* 'reasonable to assume' that given the rest of the research.
Having been driven into on more than one occasion, because I stopped at a red light and the car driver behind didn't want to: IU would say that such an assumption is entirely unreasonable
.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 9:30am
by Lance Dopestrong
I was in a nearby town the other day. Waiting for my lift I was stood within view of the approach to a large traffic light controlled roundabout right outside police headquarters. In the 15 or so minutes I was there several dozen vehicles went through on red, not a single one of them a cyclist. Multiple that stat by 96 to cover a whole 24 hours, and that thousands of cars and vans bumping through red. Where's the indignant Daily Mail level outcry at that?
I think the bottom line is that idiots are born that way. The transport mode they adopt later in life is unrelated to that.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 1:24pm
by peetee
Lance Dopestrong wrote:
I think the bottom line is that idiots are born that way. The transport mode they adopt later in life is unrelated to that.
+1
This one comment is just as pertinent a response to the title of this thread as everything else written so far.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 10:05pm
by MikeF
Lance Dopestrong wrote: In the 15 or so minutes I was there several dozen vehicles went through on red, not a single one of them a cyclist.
That can't be right. I don't believe you. Have you read what the OP said?
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 11:48am
by londoncommuter0000
Lance Dopestrong wrote:I was in a nearby town the other day. Waiting for my lift I was stood within view of the approach to a large traffic light controlled roundabout right outside police headquarters. In the 15 or so minutes I was there several dozen vehicles went through on red, not a single one of them a cyclist. Multiple that stat by 96 to cover a whole 24 hours, and that thousands of cars and vans bumping through red. Where's the indignant Daily Mail level outcry at that?
I think the bottom line is that idiots are born that way. The transport mode they adopt later in life is unrelated to that.
On the days I get public transport home, my wife will come and pick me up at the station bus stop. The stop is right next to a set of traffic lights. I play 'spot the mobile telephone', and estimate that about 70-90% of drivers will have their mobile telephone in their hand when stopped at the lights. That's for those who actually do stop....
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 11:50am
by Bonefishblues
That's a very high percentage indeed. Very alarming. Where in the country is this?
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 11:53am
by londoncommuter0000
Bonefishblues wrote:That's a very high percentage indeed. Very alarming. Where in the country is this?
SE London.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 12:02pm
by Bonefishblues
londoncommuter0000 wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:That's a very high percentage indeed. Very alarming. Where in the country is this?
SE London.
Have you reported this? Seems like a very easy 'collar' for the Police to me.
Re: Cyclists ignoring traffic lights
Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 12:04pm
by londoncommuter0000
Bonefishblues wrote:londoncommuter0000 wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:That's a very high percentage indeed. Very alarming. Where in the country is this?
SE London.
Have you reported this? Seems like a very easy 'collar' for the Police to me.
To the Met ?
LOL !