Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

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mjr
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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby mjr » 22 Oct 2019, 6:43pm

toontra wrote:
mercalia wrote:I see too many ebikes that are being driven too fast. some even where they are not being pedaled


Indeed. In London I see many, many e-bikes and scooters doing well over 16mph. Presumably they have been "fixed" (which is apparently very easy to do).

E bikes are not limited to 16mph. They just can't use their motors above it. Some may be tweaked but you can't say all fast ones are tweakers.

I note they are not yet prosecuting him for leaving the scene, which is another charge only for motorists.
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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby toontra » 22 Oct 2019, 7:02pm

mjr wrote:E bikes are not limited to 16mph. They just can't use their motors above it. Some may be tweaked but you can't say all fast ones are tweakers.


If I see an ebike or scooter doing 20+ on the flat and the rider isn't peddling then I am pretty certain they have been "tweaked".

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby MikeF » 22 Oct 2019, 9:56pm

Nathan Rasiah, prosecuting, told the court: “In this case the evidence suggests it was travelling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike.

The speed limit doesn't apply to cycles. Anyone know if it's 20mph or 30 mph on this road? I don't think exceeding 30 mph unassisted would be easy on that bike. If the quote is correct it sounds as though the prosecutor doesn't know the law.

“If they [electric bikes] exceed a certain speed or power you do need a licence.”
Should be
“If they [electric bikes] exceed a certain powered speed or power you do need a licence.”


Too often those that don't cycle fail to grasp that cyclists are able travel 20mph or more and view it as fast. However if motorists travel at 20 mph that's slow. :roll:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby Ellieb » 22 Oct 2019, 10:25pm

I think this shows that if you break the technical regulations then they will throw the book at you. I agree that the prosecution does not seem to understand that’s-bikes don’t have speed limits, just limits on how fast you can go with electric assistance.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby PH » 22 Oct 2019, 11:18pm

MikeF wrote:The speed limit doesn't apply to cycles.

It applies to motorcycles and as the report makes clear he's being prosecuted on the basis that it was a motorcycle he was riding.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby PH » 22 Oct 2019, 11:21pm

Ellieb wrote: I agree that the prosecution does not seem to understand that’s-bikes don’t have speed limits

I think we can be pretty sure the prosecution will have made themselves familiar with the law before the case started. I doubt the snippets of press coverage are a reliable source of information.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby hemo » 22 Oct 2019, 11:36pm

MikeF wrote:
Nathan Rasiah, prosecuting, told the court: “In this case the evidence suggests it was travelling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike.

The speed limit doesn't apply to cycles. Anyone know if it's 20mph or 30 mph on this road? I don't think exceeding 30 mph unassisted would be easy on that bike. If the quote is correct it sounds as though the prosecutor doesn't know the law.

“If they [electric bikes] exceed a certain speed or power you do need a licence.”
Should be
“If they [electric bikes] exceed a certain powered speed or power you do need a licence.”


Too often those that don't cycle fail to grasp that cyclists are able travel 20mph or more and view it as fast. However if motorists travel at 20 mph that's slow. :roll:


The bike was recovered and likely deemed not to be a Pedelec due to probably a motor > 250w and no speed restriction in which case it will be deemed a moped class, prosecution will be under the road traffic act and the speed limit is the least of his worries now.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby hemo » 22 Oct 2019, 11:39pm

Ellieb wrote:I think this shows that if you break the technical regulations then they will throw the book at you. I agree that the prosecution does not seem to understand that’s-bikes don’t have speed limits, just limits on how fast you can go with electric assistance.


S - ped bikes are allowed up to 500w motor, though all sellers have settled for 350w. If his hub motor is a 1000w D/D it is a moped and speed limits apply.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby NickWi » 23 Oct 2019, 2:29am

[/quote] From what I've seen of the video I'm struggling to see how they'll get a dangerous driving charge to stick ........[/quote]

Dangerous Driving doesn't just mean it was reckless driving, it also includes for you having knowledge of what you were doing was also dangerous; i.e. you knew the risk but decided to take it. Riding a too powerful/fast e-bike with inappropriate brakes for the speed, in an urban environment could not unreasonable tick the necessary boxes in the eyes of the CPS. You probably wouldn't get done for it or get off with a lesser charge if you hadn't hit someone, (regardless of the rights or wrongs of them stepping into the road) but he did.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby Cunobelin » 23 Oct 2019, 6:32am

I read the phrase "the limit for the bike" as being more than the 15 mph designated as the limit for assistance

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Oct 2019, 8:49am

Just read back to the link Graham posted about this latest collision. Interesting figures only 29 pedestrian deaths due to collisions with cyclists from 2007 to 2016. The argument is this figure is so low it's not a significant number compared to other causes of death on our roads.

Reminds me of another thread where someone was criticised for being into guns and cars. I looked up the figures for deaths caused by legally held guns and AIUI 2010 Cumbria massacre was the last case and was either 12 or 20 deaths, I'm afraid my memory has failed on exact figure.

Totally off topic but please be aware that if you use figures and statistics to defend your hobby then you really must accept similar data supporting other hobbies. Hypocrisy is an accusation I'm sure can't be levelled against our more evidence based members.

As far as this case goes, I assume a prosecution is going through the motions? So we're speculating on snippets of information gleaned from the lying media. That's a good start for a thread don't you agree! Hobby horse duly ridden for all its worth until people get bored. Then no doubt someone will post the outcome of the prosecution and it'll start up again. Giddy up everyone, there's still mileage to be made from speculation and with the added benefit of a gear discussion on the power of electric motors. :wink: :D

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby PH » 23 Oct 2019, 9:03am

Tangled Metal wrote:Reminds me of another thread where someone was criticised for being into guns and cars. I looked up the figures for deaths caused by legally held guns and AIUI 2010 Cumbria massacre was the last case and was either 12 or 20 deaths, I'm afraid my memory has failed on exact figure.

If you're going to play at statistics you might make some effort to get them right.
You've compared all deaths on one side and deliberate deaths on the other - which would you like? For a starter, around 40 people a year are killed by firearms in the UK. I don't know of a single case where anyone was deliberately killed by a cycle.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Oct 2019, 9:50am

Perhaps legally held firearms is something you missed. You can't control illegal guns but legally held guns you can to a greater extent. Criticism was made against legal guns not illegal guns. Hence looking at legal gun statistics. I don't recall exact figures, got too many more important ones to remember for work. Also not got the same time as you for Google searches to be precise. But of course you understood my point which is the aim of posting. If you want precision knock yourself out with Google.

Jeez this site can't get perspective when a cyclist is involved at times. There's defend the cyclists at all costs mentality.

So back to this case. Anyone care to outline the facts of this latest case? It seems there's a prosecution based on the bike not meeting ebike legislation / regulations. Hence it's an electric moped sort of mode of transport. Is that correct? Speed is not as relevant if it's down to not legally an ebike. Unregistered and uninsured vehicle use when such things are needed is not speed related.

I only ask because it's probably useful to summarise the facts rather than speculation.

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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby reohn2 » 23 Oct 2019, 10:09am

I just posted this on another thread:-
On Monday I met a chap in his 50's(so not a yoof) on an electric fat bike(in his own words "a cheap Chinese one"),it came out in conversation that the bike was illegal,500w motor capable of 25mph,he told me he regularly visits his lady friend 12miles away mostly uphill and uses the throttle all the way there,which flattens the battery,he then charges it whilst there and rides home on it,he was boasting how great it was not to have pedal up hill at 20odd mph.
No licence,no reg plates,no insurance other than his household insurance,which I'm fairly sure would be void if he was in a collision.
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Re: Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

Postby PH » 23 Oct 2019, 10:14am

Tangled Metal wrote:Perhaps legally held firearms is something you missed.

I didn't - Have a look at accidental death by firearm and compare it to accidental death by bicycle. But really it's a stupid and irrelevant comparison, the two have no relationship to each other, I've never heard of anyone going to work on a firearm :wink: