Woman struck by hit-and-run cyclist in Dalston dies - BBC

[hemo]

The prosecution case I read it as is he likely was riding an unregistered e bike/moped class ( not a bicycle or pedelec ), one that was capable of greater then the assisted legal pedelec speed and most likely more then 250w rated motor. Added to this he caused/attributed to the death of a pedestrian whom he collided with.
In the video of the incident he can be seen catching up (speed wise) with a cyclist some distance ahead of him who is riding on the NS of the road so the extra speed is noticeable, the collision/impact with the pedestrian was that hard and severe that you can see it. A badly buckled front wheel as he tried to leave the seen, It also looks as if a third party was trying to persuade him not to walk away as he was carrying his bike which was later found abandoned.

Modded pedelecs to ebikes above the cut off isn't uncommon and the chances of being caught or stopped is unlikely, the issues arise where users are involved in an accident oblivious to there surroundings esp when pedestrianised areas are involved and don't take in to account the extra risks/liabilty which are involved. Pedestrians and motor vehicles just don't register that a pedalled bicycle legal or illegal are capable of going at high speed except for maybe a sporty racer looking rider/bike combo, a high percentage will not know the bike is powered by other means.
You only have to look on ebay for D/D 1000w kits for sale at about £120 and buyers think they can safely and legally convert any pedal bike to be a pedelec without knowing the law or choosing to ignore the law, these kits can hit 40mph assisted and no thought of safety or upgrading brakes are taken in to account. In the fatal incident we are talking about brakes were of no consequence as from what I see the rider is riding to fast or hell bent on riding as fast as he can.

[Vorpal]

Perhaps legally held firearms is something you missed. You can't control illegal guns but legally held guns you can to a greater extent. Criticism was made against legal guns not illegal guns. Hence looking at legal gun statistics...
Jeez this site can't get perspective when a cyclist is involved at times. There's defend the cyclists at all costs mentality.

If the cyclist had been driving a car instead, and someone had run out in front of it, it would have been a 'tragedy'. If the driver had left the scene, and later been shown to be uninsured and driving a car that does not meet the Road Vehicles, they would likely charge them with causing death whilst uninsured & leaving the scene of an accident because those are the ones that are the easiest to get convictions. But even if convicted, they still likely serve less time in gaol than Charles Alliston.

There were 16 prosecutions and 13 convictions in 2012 for causing death by driving when disqualified, unlicensed or uninsured. In 2016 that was down to 7 and 5 respectively, of which 3 received custodial sentences at an average 8.7 months.

In order to receive the maximum sentence when convicted of causing death by driving when disqualified, unlicensed or uninsured, they also have to demonstrate that the driver was driving dangerously. otherwise, they face a maximum sentence of only two years for ‘causing death by driving when unlicensed or uninsured. Since you brought up firearms, if this is contrasted with the penalty for illegally holding a firearm (i.e. haven't done anything with it; just carrying it), the minimum mandatory penalty is 5 years prison sentence.

I don't think that the cyclist/driver in this case had a chance to react. Whether the outcome would have been substantially different if he'd been going a similar speed on a conventional bike, I will leave to the experts to sort out.

Unless the cyclist/driver is very lucky in their judge, and defence team, they will be convicted and receive a sentence that is (possibly) appropriate, but disproportionate when compared to sentences given to the drivers of motor vehicles.

[Tangled Metal]

Perhaps legally held firearms is something you missed.

I didn't - Have a look at accidental death by firearm and compare it to accidental death by bicycle. But really it's a stupid and irrelevant comparison, the two have no relationship to each other, I've never heard of anyone going to work on a firearm

You missed the point I was making. Posts on here seem to equate the relatively low deaths caused by cyclists hitting pedestrians as being acceptable. But comments made on another thread seemed to say it's not ok to legally own guns despite legally held guns being deliberately misused resulted in similarly low deaths. Not exact comparison but I wasn't meaning it that way.

Reread my post, hopefully you'll understand my point. Some cyclists on forums defended cyclists no matter what they do but are very quick to criticize others involved in other activities. It's like people are looking out for loopholes to let off bad behaviour of cyclists.

[Vorpal]

Posts on here seem to equate the relatively low deaths caused by cyclists hitting pedestrians as being acceptable.

Where has anyone said, or even implied that?

[Cyril Haearn]

Cyclists are easier to observe and monitor than mortons behind closed tinted windows
Very many cyclists use their phones while moving
Indefensible and inexcusable, I think

Anyone disagree?

[Vorpal]

Cyclists are easier to observe and monitor than mortons behind closed tinted windows
Very many cyclists use their phones while moving
Indefensible and inexcusable, I think

Anyone disagree?

That belongs on a different thread. Preferably one where it has already been argued to death.

[hemo]

Although in most eyes he is a cyclist but if deemed the bike conversion doesn't comply with law then he is no longer a cyclist but a moped rider and should be viewed as.

[Oldjohnw]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

[Syd]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

I’d have thought there would be more energy with an ebike, due to the greater mass, than a push bike therefore more potential to cause injury.

[mattheus]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

I’d have thought there would be more energy with an ebike, due to the greater mass, than a push bike therefore more potential to cause injury.

... but not very much greater.

(you could ride a bike with a battery and motor in your luggage! )

[horizon]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

It could be that this case starts to sort out questions like that. I am also doubtful that having insurance, wearing a helmet and carrying number plates would have saved the pedestrian's life. Having said that, my guess is that over-powered pedelecs will overall increase the danger to pedestrians (and other cyclists) vis-a-vis cyclists (despite the ability of some cyclists to do high speeds). I suppose then we get into the territory of motor-bikes being regulated and subject to speed cameras and the like. AFAIK (I was cycling there recently) Kingsland road is a 20 mph zone.

[andrew_s]

S - ped bikes are allowed up to 500w motor, though all sellers have settled for 350w. If his hub motor is a 1000w D/D it is a moped and speed limits apply.

S-pedelecs aren't a legal vehicle class in the UK. They exist because they are a legal class in some other European countries.

There's no legislation classifying then as another type of vehicle, as there is in the case of 15 mph restricted e-bikes. Therefore, being a vehicle and having a motor, they count as motor vehicles, need to be type approved to be used on the road, and are subject to all road laws.
On the very few occasions when I've looked at the website of a UK seller, there's been advice on how to go through single vehicle type approval and get them legally registered.
That doesn't avoid general speed limits, drink driving laws, insurance requirements and motorcycle helmets though.

In the case of Hanlon, I'd expect much the same result as Charlie Alliston - 18 months chokey, and with a driving ban on top.
I've always been of the expectation that being involved in serious accident whilst riding a derestricted or otherwise illegal e-bike would result in the book being thrown at you.

[Syd]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

I’d have thought there would be more energy with an ebike, due to the greater mass, than a push bike therefore more potential to cause injury.

... but not very much greater.

(you could ride a bike with a battery and motor in your luggage! )

Of course you could but that way not included in the original question.

[mjr]

Is there a material difference between a push bike at, say, 20mph and an ebike?

I’d have thought there would be more energy with an ebike, due to the greater mass, than a push bike therefore more potential to cause injury.

Ignoring legality, if it has a non-self-releasing accelerator (instead of pedal-assist), it may also keep powering forwards after the rider has fallen off, which seems likely to increase damage.

[Oldjohnw]

I am.pretty sure that if I were in an accident on my legal ebike at, say 18mph, and no matter the circumstances or blame, the press would say ,"70 year old.man on ebike in accident".

Yes, there might be a greater mass with an ebike but not necessarily: the rider's weight iand luggage carried are factors.

The motor has nothing to do with a legal ebike at 18mph.