Can road bike time trialling revive the TT scene.

[Whippet]

Thinking a bit more about the original question of whether the specialist kit puts people off:
Surely this is only a problem if you want to win or were concerned about your finishing position in relation to others. I’d imagine most turning up in the 60’s knew that they had little chance of winning ( as I don’t ), but still turned up all the same. Maybe the current generation have more fragile ego’s rather than a problem with their kit.

[whoof]

Thinking a bit more about the original question of whether the specialist kit puts people off:
Surely this is only a problem if you want to win or were concerned about your finishing position in relation to others. I’d imagine most turning up in the 60’s knew that they had little chance of winning ( as I don’t ), but still turned up all the same. Maybe the current generation have more fragile ego’s rather than a problem with their kit.

Or perhaps it's that if you are not competitive why would you want to bother in the first place and if you are competive why would you ride on a bike that would make you uncompetative.

[Cugel]

Thinking a bit more about the original question of whether the specialist kit puts people off:
Surely this is only a problem if you want to win or were concerned about your finishing position in relation to others. I’d imagine most turning up in the 60’s knew that they had little chance of winning ( as I don’t ), but still turned up all the same. Maybe the current generation have more fragile ego’s rather than a problem with their kit.

Or perhaps it's that if you are not competitive why would you want to bother in the first place and if you are competive why would you ride on a bike that would make you uncompetitive.

Because, dear boy, the competition in a TT is not with others but with yourself. Keep up! (Or rather, don't, as you are racing only your own wee self).

Cugel

[whoof]

Thinking a bit more about the original question of whether the specialist kit puts people off:
Surely this is only a problem if you want to win or were concerned about your finishing position in relation to others. I’d imagine most turning up in the 60’s knew that they had little chance of winning ( as I don’t ), but still turned up all the same. Maybe the current generation have more fragile ego’s rather than a problem with their kit.

Or perhaps it's that if you are not competitive why would you want to bother in the first place and if you are competive why would you ride on a bike that would make you uncompetitive.

Because, dear boy, the competition in a TT is not with others but with yourself. Keep up! (Or rather, don't, as you are racing only your own wee self).

Cugel

Then why do cycle clubs have club championship awarded to the rider that was fastest not who ride the biggest personal best and the same for national and world championships?
Similarly when I used to discuss riding tts with another rider they would often ask 'what's your pb for a 25?' Why is my pb of interest to them?

I and many riders I know rode tts to win. Others who couldn't win overall would compare themselves with other riders in their club, of a similar age or even just their mate.

Try running a tt and saying to each rider I'll email you your time and none of the other results. That would be guaranteed to kill it off.

[Whippet]

A high proportion of my clubs TT awards are based on handicapped points races. So the most improved riders, and not the fastest are the winners.

[whoof]

A high proportion of my clubs TT awards are based on handicapped points races. So the most improved riders, and not the fastest are the winners.

CTT, the governing body list all of their results in order 1st, 2nd, 3rd.... based on the fastest rider. The results certainly were not recorded in this way by the timekeeper, someone had to go to the effort of ordering in this way. Very odd thing to do and then publish the results in this way, with order being the first column when riders are only testing themselves against their own time.
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/find-results

[Cugel]

Or perhaps it's that if you are not competitive why would you want to bother in the first place and if you are competive why would you ride on a bike that would make you uncompetitive.

Because, dear boy, the competition in a TT is not with others but with yourself. Keep up! (Or rather, don't, as you are racing only your own wee self).

Cugel

Then why do cycle clubs have club championship awarded to the rider that was fastest not who ride the biggest personal best and the same for national and world championships?
Similarly when I used to discuss riding tts with another rider they would often ask 'what's your pb for a 25?' Why is my pb of interest to them?

I and many riders I know rode tts to win. Others who couldn't win overall would compare themselves with other riders in their club, of a similar age or even just their mate.

Try running a tt and saying to each rider I'll email you your time and none of the other results. That would be guaranteed to kill it off.

The Whippet has answered you succinctly.

The reason that many TTs are now some form of cod race (like Strava KOMs only in reality rather that cyberspace) is because some fools made them that way in many cycling domains. But if you're beating the other riders rather than your own previous times then you're sucked into the equipment race and, if you're stupid enough (many are), into the drugs race.

The cycling competition against others is known as the road race; the track race; the cyclo-cross race; etc..

So, you're right in a way since many TTs are now oriented at finding the rider with the best time. Humans - we just have to construct hierarchies then put ourselves in them. We're herd animals, I suppose, and thus the banging of the antlers or butting of the heads.

I once, in my callow youth, lived with a woman who was utterly competitive. She could turn anything into a competition and did so to a tedious degree. She also hated to lose so would cheat - even more tedious. She couldn't or wouldn't explain what drove this behaviour. It made her (and me) miserable quite regularly. A bit like a lot of competitive TTers I know; manic-depressives, some of 'em!

Cugel

[whoof]

Because, dear boy, the competition in a TT is not with others but with yourself. Keep up! (Or rather, don't, as you are racing only your own wee self).

Cugel

Then why do cycle clubs have club championship awarded to the rider that was fastest not who ride the biggest personal best and the same for national and world championships?
Similarly when I used to discuss riding tts with another rider they would often ask 'what's your pb for a 25?' Why is my pb of interest to them?

I and many riders I know rode tts to win. Others who couldn't win overall would compare themselves with other riders in their club, of a similar age or even just their mate.

Try running a tt and saying to each rider I'll email you your time and none of the other results. That would be guaranteed to kill it off.

The Whippet has answered you succinctly.

The reason that many TTs are now some form of cod race (like Strava KOMs only in reality rather that cyberspace) is because some fools made them that way in many cycling domains. But if you're beating the other riders rather than your own previous times then you're sucked into the equipment race and, if you're stupid enough (many are), into the drugs race.

The cycling competition against others is known as the road race; the track race; the cyclo-cross race; etc..

So, you're right in a way since many TTs are now oriented at finding the rider with the best time. Humans - we just have to construct hierarchies then put ourselves in them. We're herd animals, I suppose, and thus the banging of the antlers or butting of the heads.

I once, in my callow youth, lived with a woman who was utterly competitive. She could turn anything into a competition and did so to a tedious degree. She also hated to lose so would cheat - even more tedious. She couldn't or wouldn't explain what drove this behaviour. It made her (and me) miserable quite regularly. A bit like a lot of competitive TTers I know; manic-depressives, some of 'em!

Cugel

Thank you for that vignette into your miserable personal life.
If someone is willing to cheat then they will do so to better their pb. Riders also buy 'quicker' equipment to get a pb and they always have.
The suggestion that if someone is willing to race another person on a bike they are animals butting heads and possible drugs cheats is an ignorant rant.

[fastpedaller]

It is a strange thing (the mind of the TT rider) - I should know, I've been there myself. I used to wonder why folk would turn up at the same TT course each week, ride the same bike (more importantly with the same gears) and wonder why they ended up with the same time (give or take a few seconds).
Then along came the SPOCO (Sporting Courses) founded by the late Bill Norris - this is a competition based on 'position in the race' so doesn't favour a good day compared to a bad one (weather-wise) etc etc. For me it brought a breath of fresh air to TT riding, and SPOCO still runs each year. Unfortunately (it would seem due to 'pb chasing) SPOCO wasn't as popular as I thought it would be, but has a devoted following - Certainly worth a look!

[TrevA]

It is a strange thing (the mind of the TT rider) - I should know, I've been there myself. I used to wonder why folk would turn up at the same TT course each week, ride the same bike (more importantly with the same gears) and wonder why they ended up with the same time (give or take a few seconds).!

This is the reason I gave up riding open TT's. I could sit in the HQ before the race and predict to within 30 seconds, what time I would do. I continued riding club TT's for a good while longer but eventually gave those up too. I did restart when my son started riding TTs but eventually gave up again in 2011. I still like riding fast but these days do it on the chaingang.

Never done SpoCo as there don't seem to be many around here.

[BigFoz]

Recently returned to TTs, couple of weeks ago I rode the Tour of the Campsies TT, including straight up the Crow Road from the start. At 57, 97Kg, arthritic knee, that was not pleasant. Rode it on my 1983 Carlton Pro, with Tribars (and bell... ) as I wanted the triple, just in case (and needed it). I didn't come last, had a blast. Riding the Tour of the Trossachs in 2 weeks - straight up the Dukes Pass. Will likely race the Pro again, leaving TT bike on turbo...

Just ride to have fun, if you're quick, cool, if not, also cool! I crawled up the Crow road wondering what I thought I was doing, but overtook everyone in sight on the way back down, clipping 75kph (It was wet so kept a bit in reserve). May have been one of the quicker riders coming down, likely the slowest going up. Carving the open corners coming down was epic. I knew there were 2 tight turns, but didn't know exactly where, so backed off to avoid launching through a barbed wire fence.

But fun? Heck yes. Did I need a plastic fantastic TT bike to enjoy it? Heck no.

[Cugel]

Then why do cycle clubs have club championship awarded to the rider that was fastest not who ride the biggest personal best and the same for national and world championships?
Similarly when I used to discuss riding tts with another rider they would often ask 'what's your pb for a 25?' Why is my pb of interest to them?

I and many riders I know rode tts to win. Others who couldn't win overall would compare themselves with other riders in their club, of a similar age or even just their mate.

Try running a tt and saying to each rider I'll email you your time and none of the other results. That would be guaranteed to kill it off.

The Whippet has answered you succinctly.

The reason that many TTs are now some form of cod race (like Strava KOMs only in reality rather that cyberspace) is because some fools made them that way in many cycling domains. But if you're beating the other riders rather than your own previous times then you're sucked into the equipment race and, if you're stupid enough (many are), into the drugs race.

The cycling competition against others is known as the road race; the track race; the cyclo-cross race; etc..

So, you're right in a way since many TTs are now oriented at finding the rider with the best time. Humans - we just have to construct hierarchies then put ourselves in them. We're herd animals, I suppose, and thus the banging of the antlers or butting of the heads.

I once, in my callow youth, lived with a woman who was utterly competitive. She could turn anything into a competition and did so to a tedious degree. She also hated to lose so would cheat - even more tedious. She couldn't or wouldn't explain what drove this behaviour. It made her (and me) miserable quite regularly. A bit like a lot of competitive TTers I know; manic-depressives, some of 'em!

Cugel

Thank you for that vignette into your miserable personal life.
If someone is willing to cheat then they will do so to better their pb. Riders also buy 'quicker' equipment to get a pb and they always have.
The suggestion that if someone is willing to race another person on a bike they are animals butting heads and possible drugs cheats is an ignorant rant.

My life has improved since them days, partly from avoiding not just over-competitive girlfriends but also manic-depressive TTers.

Anyone who cheats by using go-faster wheels or drugs et al in an effort only to improve their personal time would be cheating only themselves, so why would they bother? Those who are competing against others are tempted to cheat in these ways because they're rewarded for doing so by a better place in the hierarchy-of-worth, not to mention a possible glittering prize. Are you suggesting, though, that none of these competitive persons ever cheat? Ha ha.

George Orwell had this to say about sport in general and competitive sport in particular, although his study was football rather than cycling:

".....sport is an unfailing cause of ill will"......."war minus the shooting".

As in war, people will often do anything to win, Anything. They even butt heads, especially in the sprint. I wouldn't be surprised if some footballer had attacked an opponent with an antler!

Cugel

[fastpedaller]

Recently returned to TTs, couple of weeks ago I rode the Tour of the Campsies TT, including straight up the Crow Road from the start. At 57, 97Kg, arthritic knee, that was not pleasant. Rode it on my 1983 Carlton Pro, with Tribars (and bell... ) as I wanted the triple, just in case (and needed it). I didn't come last, had a blast. Riding the Tour of the Trossachs in 2 weeks - straight up the Dukes Pass. Will likely race the Pro again, leaving TT bike on turbo...

Just ride to have fun, if you're quick, cool, if not, also cool! I crawled up the Crow road wondering what I thought I was doing, but overtook everyone in sight on the way back down, clipping 75kph (It was wet so kept a bit in reserve). May have been one of the quicker riders coming down, likely the slowest going up. Carving the open corners coming down was epic. I knew there were 2 tight turns, but didn't know exactly where, so backed off to avoid launching through a barbed wire fence.

But fun? Heck yes. Did I need a plastic fantastic TT bike to enjoy it? Heck no.

Hey, great! sounds like you enjoyed it. One of the most enjoyable TT's I ever did was the Circuit of Poole Harbour time trial. Start was at Sandbanks, and then up a hill which was timed from bottom to top for a separate prize. Around the harbour was picturesque (I know I should have been racing, but couldn't avoid a glance!) past corfe castle, through Wareham (set of traffic lights with marshall to hold anyone 'caught') and continue to do the last couple of miles past Studland on a huge downhill (I worked this one out beforehand and used 99.9% of my energy before the downhill ) And at the end (instead of a free tea) was a free ticket for the ferry back to Sandbanks. (I didn't quite come last). Recommended (if it still runs.... I'm off to check google!)

[whoof]

The Whippet has answered you succinctly.

The reason that many TTs are now some form of cod race (like Strava KOMs only in reality rather that cyberspace) is because some fools made them that way in many cycling domains. But if you're beating the other riders rather than your own previous times then you're sucked into the equipment race and, if you're stupid enough (many are), into the drugs race.

The cycling competition against others is known as the road race; the track race; the cyclo-cross race; etc..

So, you're right in a way since many TTs are now oriented at finding the rider with the best time. Humans - we just have to construct hierarchies then put ourselves in them. We're herd animals, I suppose, and thus the banging of the antlers or butting of the heads.

I once, in my callow youth, lived with a woman who was utterly competitive. She could turn anything into a competition and did so to a tedious degree. She also hated to lose so would cheat - even more tedious. She couldn't or wouldn't explain what drove this behaviour. It made her (and me) miserable quite regularly. A bit like a lot of competitive TTers I know; manic-depressives, some of 'em!

Cugel

Thank you for that vignette into your miserable personal life.
If someone is willing to cheat then they will do so to better their pb. Riders also buy 'quicker' equipment to get a pb and they always have.
The suggestion that if someone is willing to race another person on a bike they are animals butting heads and possible drugs cheats is an ignorant rant.

My life has improved since them days, partly from avoiding not just over-competitive girlfriends but also manic-depressive TTers.

Anyone who cheats by using go-faster wheels or drugs et al in an effort only to improve their personal time would be cheating only themselves, so why would they bother? Those who are competing against others are tempted to cheat in these ways because they're rewarded for doing so by a better place in the hierarchy-of-worth, not to mention a possible glittering prize. Are you suggesting, though, that none of these competitive persons ever cheat? Ha ha.

George Orwell had this to say about sport in general and competitive sport in particular, although his study was football rather than cycling:

".....sport is an unfailing cause of ill will"......."war minus the shooting".

As in war, people will often do anything to win, Anything. They even butt heads, especially in the sprint. I wouldn't be surprised if some footballer had attacked an opponent with an antler!

Cugel

What would George Orwell do?
I suppose it make a change from Jesus.