Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
drossall
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by drossall »

kwackers wrote:And then if you sit behind in a queue you've still got to put up with traffic trying to get in front - in fact the only time I've ever been knocked off at a set of lights I was actually queuing and the driver behind tried to get in front.

I've spent decades avoiding any kind of moving to the front, while riding in and between towns. Only in the last four years have I got a job in London, and been forced to reconsider, and see it from the perspective of a city commuter.

The point of ASLs, as I understand them, is to avoid exactly the situation that led to kwackers' accident, by getting cyclists across junctions before the motorists behind have a chance to try to race the bikes into the narrow gaps on the other side or, even worse, turn left across them (often without indicating in any useful way). Staying where you in a queue is not a great idea if it means that you're going to be exposed to that situation, and taking the lane can be hard in stop-start traffic that is reaching 20mph during the start bits. I find it quite different from riding at home, where I'll still most often just wait in my place in the queue.

Approach lanes are always on the left, if they are provided. Where they exist, and if they're not blocked by cars, they're blocked by the first few cyclists, who don't "get it"; instead of filling the width of the ASL, they stop in the lane, trapping the riders behind next to traffic that may turn left across them without indicating. And very often you can't see whether there's an ASL at all until you have already committed to going up the side of traffic - so you can get to the front and find no ASL, even though they were provided at the last three junctions on the same road. Or there is an ASL, but it's occupied by a motor vehicle either that didn't quite make it across the lights, or whose driver doesn't care about ASLs anyway. So there are loads of unofficial ASLs, just in front of the stop line, made by cyclists with nowhere else to go.

On the other hand, you're often riding routes whose traffic-light sequences you know, and there are several places where I can go up the side in the absolute certainty that nothing with an engine is going to be moving until long after I've got to the front. Vehicles that are stuck in traffic are almost entirely safe to share the road with - provided that you're sure that they're not going to move suddenly.

I prefer to go up the right where I have the choice. In some places, however, that means going out round two lanes of vehicles, and back across them at the front. That's not a great idea. Much safer to go up the left, if the vehicles are stuck, you know when the lights will change, and there's a good escape route in the form of the pavement.

The Highway Code does not advise against (and certainly does not ban) the practice. In spite of popular language, it generally talks about filtering rather than undertaking, and mostly as something that motorists should anticipate (rules 160 and 211). Rule 88, regarding how to do it, is addressed to motorcyclists, but logically also to cyclists. The "undertaking" word is only used to cyclists, and then only when warning us to watch for other two-wheelers who might come up the side of us when we are turning (rule 72). That's probably because filtering and undertaking are different things - filtering happens in stationary or slow-moving traffic, whereas the undertaking in rule 72 happens once the traffic is moving reasonably freely.

So, whilst being on the left of a moving lorry* is an obvious no-no, my view as a rider of decades of experience, but newer to London riding, is that filtering (not undertaking) is essential to safety, but should be used with care and done on the right where reasonable. And riding in London is actually quite fun most of the time, and probably much safer than the alternatives, at least when health benefits are taken into account.

* Or the right for that matter
Last edited by drossall on 21 Oct 2018, 7:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
thirdcrank
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by thirdcrank »

drossall's measured post has reminded me that some time ago I posted this about filtering.

Training to filter

viewtopic.php?p=224749#p224749

Depending on the circumstances, it seems to have official approval. (But not up the nearside of large vehicles.)
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by Vorpal »

I generally agree with kwackers and drossal on this.

A commuting cyclist in city/busy traffic (not just London) is likely safest with the judicious use of filtering, preferably on the right, or in a cycle lane. I avoid large vehicles as much as possible, and in the circumstance where they are ahead of me at traffic lights, I stay well back from them.

Without an ASL, or plenty of room at the front, I am also careful to insert myself back into the flow of traffic before I get to the junction. I've gotten stuck between lanes a couple of times, and found it a bit uncomfortable. I'd rather be cautious and go across as part of the flow in a traffic lane. Again, of course, it depends upon circumstances.

As far as cycle lanes go, IMO, the only valid reason for their existance is filtering in heavy traffic. But they do require extreme caution at junctions.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
What she said^ :)
But this comes from experience!
What is advice by cycle training instructors for newbies :?:
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by Vorpal »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
What she said^ :)
But this comes from experience!
What is advice by cycle training instructors for newbies :?:

When I was teaching Bikeability, I told my Level 1 & 2 students not to, but allowed that it was possible under limited circumstances. I did suggest that if they were commuting in traffic, taking level 3 Bikeability would be useful.

I did teach filtering, more or less as explained above, only to Level 3 students. I emphasised that they should use judgement, and err on the side of caution when they weren't confident.
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hondated
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by hondated »

Psamathe wrote:One day the human race will invent some amazing technology that will allow lorry drivers to see back down the left side of their vehicle. We've put man on the moon, traveled to the depths of the ocean, discovered amazing medical cures, we've got vehicles that drive themselves (and can already see down their left side) so visibility down the left side of a lorry must be coming at some point when our technology progresses. And I'll even give the device a name "the mirror" - at least that way the marketing departments wont be delaying it's production when we get to invent it.

Ian

Ian forgive the pun but I don't see that. As a former class 1 HGV driver which was some years ago now in my day we had two mirrors one either side. But still having an interest in HGV vehicles I see that they now have these + mirrors lower down + mirrors looking down at the front wheels and on some vehicles a mirror pointed down to the front of the vehicle.
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by Psamathe »

hondated wrote:
Psamathe wrote:One day the human race will invent some amazing technology that will allow lorry drivers to see back down the left side of their vehicle. We've put man on the moon, traveled to the depths of the ocean, discovered amazing medical cures, we've got vehicles that drive themselves (and can already see down their left side) so visibility down the left side of a lorry must be coming at some point when our technology progresses. And I'll even give the device a name "the mirror" - at least that way the marketing departments wont be delaying it's production when we get to invent it.

Ian

Ian forgive the pun but I don't see that. As a former class 1 HGV driver which was some years ago now in my day we had two mirrors one either side. But still having an interest in HGV vehicles I see that they now have these + mirrors lower down + mirrors looking down at the front wheels and on some vehicles a mirror pointed down to the front of the vehicle.

Mine was a sarcastic post because so often it is reported that drivers can't see cyclists on the inside end they a tragedy happens. Given the achievements of the human race I cannot believe we cannot come up with something that will allow the driver to see a cyclist on the inside.

Ian
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Si
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by Si »

What is advice by cycle training instructors for newbies


Filtering is not an outcome covered by L2, given that it is meant to be conducted on relatively quiet roads.

Filtering is an outcome covered by L3, which can take trainees onto any road upon which it is legal to cycle. Trainees are allowed to filter on either side or stay in line provided that what they choose to do is safe with regard to the road circumstances that they face, and that they can justify their decision (it's no good getting it right by accident!).

Thus filtering on the left would be perfectly fine if (and only if) it is safe* to do so, and the trainee understands why it is safe to do it in that specific case. If, on the other hand, the trainee were to say "I always filter on the right because someone on a forum told me to always filter on the right" I would say that they had _not_ achieved the outcome because they are not taking into account and understanding the specific hazards that are found at each unique queue of traffic they will encounter.

*of course, whatever they do there is always an element of risk, so by 'safe' we say that the risks are reasonable and that they have considered what they are and what they need to do about them.


I told my Level 1 & 2 students not to

Now, if your L1 trainees are filtering up the left of a row of cars something really has gone wrong :lol: :lol: :lol:
pwa
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by pwa »

I think most of us, perhaps all of us, would not have attempted the passing of the HGV on the left that this unfortunate woman did, with her son behind. It seems likely that she lacked the experience needed to recognise how dangerous the situation was. I'm sure we would all agree that the driver ought to be checking that mirror, but we cannot afford to rely on that. What if the driver's view is poor due to sun in the mirror, or the driver is preoccupied with other things happening on the road and is just in the process of cocking it up? We cannot rely on the driver doing the right thing, so we have to take measures to keep ourselves as safe as possible, by not being in that zone to the left of the lorry. And we have a moral duty to pass that advice on to any inexperienced cyclist who will listen.
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mjr
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote:[...] We cannot rely on the driver doing the right thing, so we have to take measures to keep ourselves as safe as possible, by not being in that zone to the left of the lorry. And we have a moral duty to pass that advice on to any inexperienced cyclist who will listen.

You lost me with the last bit, at least if you mean doing it casually while riding. The inexperienced cannot tell good advice from bad, so IMO should treat all unsolicited advice with extreme caution and probably ignore most of it - just last week, I was told by another rider to proceed onto a dual carriageway past a red light and sworn at when I wouldn't - so if you do it when riding, you're pretty much just making the world noisier and breaking highway code rule 147.
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pwa
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by pwa »

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:[...] We cannot rely on the driver doing the right thing, so we have to take measures to keep ourselves as safe as possible, by not being in that zone to the left of the lorry. And we have a moral duty to pass that advice on to any inexperienced cyclist who will listen.

You lost me with the last bit, at least if you mean doing it casually while riding. The inexperienced cannot tell good advice from bad, so IMO should treat all unsolicited advice with extreme caution and probably ignore most of it - just last week, I was told by another rider to proceed onto a dual carriageway past a red light and sworn at when I wouldn't - so if you do it when riding, you're pretty much just making the world noisier and breaking highway code rule 147.

Well that's sort of what I'm getting at by inexperienced cyclists who will listen. Not folk you just happen to roll up alongside on the road. They obviously need to be people you have established a relationship with, who don't think you are a know-it-all sticking your nose in.
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by Vorpal »

Si wrote:
I told my Level 1 & 2 students not to

Now, if your L1 trainees are filtering up the left of a row of cars something really has gone wrong :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just the head teacher's car... :P

(more seriously, the subject came up in some of the L1/L2 courses I taught in East London, & the bigger towns in Essex)
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kwackers
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by kwackers »

Of course no matter what you do some fool in a tin box will make a mockery of your attempt.

The most common manifestation for me is when I choose to queue.
Typically there'll be a couple of cars at a set of lights whose junction is either narrow or narrows shortly after, so I move into primary and start rolling to a stop behind the queue.

But then along they come. A car appears at my side and starts to move over shepherding me into the gutter.

Usually a quick bang on their wing mirror puts them right at the expense of having to put up with the horn and there is of course the risk they'll lose their rag and knock you off - but I'm camera'd up, the cameras wouldn't capture the wing mirror rap, speed is low and next time someone knocks me off it's my intention to milk it to death. :wink:
awavey
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by awavey »

kwackers wrote:Of course no matter what you do some fool in a tin box will make a mockery of your attempt.

The most common manifestation for me is when I choose to queue.
Typically there'll be a couple of cars at a set of lights whose junction is either narrow or narrows shortly after, so I move into primary and start rolling to a stop behind the queue.

But then along they come. A car appears at my side and starts to move over shepherding me into the gutter.


yeah happens to me alot at a couple of junctions I hit on my commute, so instead of easing up to the traffic queue and timing it just so that we all move off together again in synch which would be the best way for everyone, I usually find I have to keep going at full speed and brake at the last minute...and hope my brakes work in time and I havent picked up anything on the rim, else a car or even a lorry has tried it once, will just move along side me try and pass me, some make it some dont, and try and cut me off by pushing over on to me to try and force me to the kerb out of their way.

and then some drivers if you filter back past on the left and retake prime as the queue starts to move again,then go completely road rage mad at you, which seems crazy its literally a bike length in a queue of traffic whose speed I am easily keeping up with, but no got to overtake the cyclist it seems even if it means driving down the middle of a road,or heading towards a barrier, or trying to pretend your some DS in a pro race and barking swear words out as they drive alongside you and fake swerve at you (well it seems fake but then they are generally driving along staring at you not the road ahead), one instance it happened the driver only ceased being a total idiot once Id pointed out the video camera I was carrying, though god knows what his kid in the passenger seat was making of his behaviour.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Moving Up The Left On The Inside

Post by The utility cyclist »

kwackers wrote:If only it was so black and white.

I ride up the left, or the right, or the middle, or wait in line.
Depends on the circumstances, types of traffic, type of junction, familiarity, time of day, direction of sun...


As a hard and fast rule "don't ride up the left" is fine but in the real world sometimes its the best option.

Ditto, circumstances are everything, being someone with experience of both bikes and motors gives you a far better insight as to outcomes and managing the circumstances and 'risk' factor.

The only time I had issues going up the inside was when there was stationary traffic on a long straight road with well over a metre on the inside, traffic started setting off, vehicle slanted in toward me at an acute angle as the women had her phone in her hands (but I could not prove it), she caught my handlebar despite my best efforts to brake and turn (and suffered a fracture of the elbow). It never stopped me going up the inside though, I'll happily filter on the outside or through the middle as Kwackers mentions.

At lights, I'm very much likely to sit centre of the lane, particularly if traffic has been stationary for a while, I'd far rather take the lane going through the lights or turning left and control the situation so it's easier/safer with less chance of being squeezed going straight on or indeed turning left. They'd have to drive right over me from behind and whilst that can and has happened I think it's very rare, it also allows you more thinking about the exit line as opposed to what is X vehicle going to do that is sat right next to me.

That said, it's the fact that we have large motor vehicles allowed to turn with no signalling/not being able to see those alongside (same outcome if there was a cycle lane) never mind being there at all that is the major issue. Again everyone talks about responsibilities of cyclists yet in ped/cyclist interactions the same line of reasoning is rarely ever used, you only have to look at several high profile cases to know that the way these incidents are reported, commented about by joe public and indeed prosecuted/not prosecuted to see that there is a massive gap in the way these similar scenarios are judged/interpreted.
Last edited by The utility cyclist on 24 Oct 2018, 4:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
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