Moving Up The Left On The Inside

[drossall]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing"

We all understand the challenges of driving a large vehicle, the need to avoid making it more difficult, and the self-interest in doing so. However, this sort of thing can only add to the perception that the duty of care lies mainly on the potential victim, which it doesn't of course. And ultimately, if a vehicle can't be driven safely, it shouldn't be there. Some of the vehicles with these things aren't even articulated, and still can't be driven safely, it seems.

[pwa]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing"

We all understand the challenges of driving a large vehicle, the need to avoid making it more difficult, and the self-interest in doing so. However, this sort of thing can only add to the perception that the duty of care lies mainly on the potential victim, which it doesn't of course. And ultimately, if a vehicle can't be driven safely, it shouldn't be there. Some of the vehicles with these things aren't even articulated, and still can't be driven safely, it seems.

You are looking at this from both sides, which is good. Risk is minimised when everyone concerned is doing things correctly. In this case it looks like neither party did. You talk about blaming the victim, but remember that in this case there was very nearly a second victim, led into that dangerous place his mother.

When the facts are looked at in detail it is likely that the driver did something wrong and could have avoided the incident, so I expect the primary blame lies there. But the thought of a parent to leading their child down the left side of a Tesco lorry still makes me shudder. Less importantly, it must make life very difficult for HGV drivers when they have cycles appearing down either side of their vehicle.

[Cyril Haearn]

Having lots of mirrors is one thing, using them all is another

[thirdcrank]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing" ...

Yes. It's not much different from not clearing your windscreen of condensation etc., and blowing your horn to warn others in your way that you cannot see them. Also, drivers' mates were once a lot more common.

[meic]

I was quite amazed when listening to a bunch of ramblers discussing one of their members getting knocked over by a car and having his hip broken.
They were pretty much absolving the driver of any blame on the grounds that the walker was deaf, the car was reversing out of a parking space and the general assumption is that pedestrians will hear your car and move out of the way!

[mjr]

I was quite amazed when listening to a bunch of ramblers discussing one of their members getting knocked over by a car and having his hip broken.
They were pretty much absolving the driver of any blame on the grounds that the walker was deaf, the car was reversing out of a parking space and the general assumption is that pedestrians will hear your car and move out of the way!

Nice to learn that the Stockholm Syndrome Cycle Club has a rambling sibling. No, not nice. What's the word? Horrifying.

[pwa]

I was quite amazed when listening to a bunch of ramblers discussing one of their members getting knocked over by a car and having his hip broken.
They were pretty much absolving the driver of any blame on the grounds that the walker was deaf, the car was reversing out of a parking space and the general assumption is that pedestrians will hear your car and move out of the way!

When I reverse out of a parking space I watch out for pedestrians, and for cars coming from the left and the right, all at the same time as making sure the front corner of the car doesn't clip an adjacent car as I turn. With one pair of eyes that can't cover all those things at the same time. Whichever way you do it you end up taking your eye off something momentarily. You have to in order to look at something else you have to monitor. And you don't always get a great view of any of it. For a lorry driver it is a similar situation. Too many things to watch at the same time. So I do have some understanding for the drivers. Even so, a good stare down that left mirror should happen at some point just before full left lock goes on. That should be an automatic action.

[The utility cyclist]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing"

We all understand the challenges of driving a large vehicle, the need to avoid making it more difficult, and the self-interest in doing so. However, this sort of thing can only add to the perception that the duty of care lies mainly on the potential victim, which it doesn't of course. And ultimately, if a vehicle can't be driven safely, it shouldn't be there. Some of the vehicles with these things aren't even articulated, and still can't be driven safely, it seems.

There's the rub though, people who are deaf won't hear that, visual signalling is massively important, and as I said, there's too much onus on the vulnerable parties on the road. We seem to have a different set of rules for people on bikes compared to everyone else and not for the good.

[Cyril Haearn]

I was quite amazed when listening to a bunch of ramblers discussing one of their members getting knocked over by a car and having his hip broken.
They were pretty much absolving the driver of any blame on the grounds that the walker was deaf, the car was reversing out of a parking space and the general assumption is that pedestrians will hear your car and move out of the way!

When I reverse out of a parking space I watch out for pedestrians, and for cars coming from the left and the right, all at the same time as making sure the front corner of the car doesn't clip an adjacent car as I turn. With one pair of eyes that can't cover all those things at the same time. Whichever way you do it you end up taking your eye off something momentarily. You have to in order to look at something else you have to monitor. And you don't always get a great view of any of it. For a lorry driver it is a similar situation. Too many things to watch at the same time. So I do have some understanding for the drivers. Even so, a good stare down that left mirror should happen at some point just before full left lock goes on. That should be an automatic action.

One should avoid reversing wherever possible
If one cannot see whether the way is clear one should enrol a lookout person

[pwa]

I was quite amazed when listening to a bunch of ramblers discussing one of their members getting knocked over by a car and having his hip broken.
They were pretty much absolving the driver of any blame on the grounds that the walker was deaf, the car was reversing out of a parking space and the general assumption is that pedestrians will hear your car and move out of the way!

When I reverse out of a parking space I watch out for pedestrians, and for cars coming from the left and the right, all at the same time as making sure the front corner of the car doesn't clip an adjacent car as I turn. With one pair of eyes that can't cover all those things at the same time. Whichever way you do it you end up taking your eye off something momentarily. You have to in order to look at something else you have to monitor. And you don't always get a great view of any of it. For a lorry driver it is a similar situation. Too many things to watch at the same time. So I do have some understanding for the drivers. Even so, a good stare down that left mirror should happen at some point just before full left lock goes on. That should be an automatic action.

One should avoid reversing as far as possible
If one cannot see whether the way is clear one should enrol a lookout person

There is an inherent problem at supermarkets where, if you reverse in, you may not have room to load the boot with your shopping from the trolley. So you leave the tail pointing out. And you have to reverse out. You keep things as safe as possible by reversing out very slowly and scanning all possible problem areas as best you can from your less than ideal position. Taking another person with you just for that 30 second job isn't always practical.

[Cyril Haearn]

Reverse in to park, after shopping start the engine, move the vehicle forwards 50cm, stop the motor, apply handbrake..

In practice can parks are rarely full, right?, I park further away, no need to reverse or try to find a free place, pick up a trolley to protect myself while walking across the car park

At home I walk to shop, if I want to shop exceptionally on the way home by car I do not drive to the store, I park outside, saves 500m driving, walk ten minutes, always have a Big Bag with me

[Bmblbzzz]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing"

We all understand the challenges of driving a large vehicle, the need to avoid making it more difficult, and the self-interest in doing so. However, this sort of thing can only add to the perception that the duty of care lies mainly on the potential victim, which it doesn't of course. And ultimately, if a vehicle can't be driven safely, it shouldn't be there. Some of the vehicles with these things aren't even articulated, and still can't be driven safely, it seems.

There's the rub though, people who are deaf won't hear that, visual signalling is massively important, and as I said, there's too much onus on the vulnerable parties on the road. We seem to have a different set of rules for people on bikes compared to everyone else and not for the good.

The visual signalling and the audible warning are linked. It's indicating left that activates the "Vehicle turning" alarm.

[The utility cyclist]

In London, I'm very aware of the growing number of vehicles with speakers fitted, that say:
"Stand clear: this vehicle is turning left/turning right/reversing"

We all understand the challenges of driving a large vehicle, the need to avoid making it more difficult, and the self-interest in doing so. However, this sort of thing can only add to the perception that the duty of care lies mainly on the potential victim, which it doesn't of course. And ultimately, if a vehicle can't be driven safely, it shouldn't be there. Some of the vehicles with these things aren't even articulated, and still can't be driven safely, it seems.

There's the rub though, people who are deaf won't hear that, visual signalling is massively important, and as I said, there's too much onus on the vulnerable parties on the road. We seem to have a different set of rules for people on bikes compared to everyone else and not for the good.

The visual signalling and the audible warning are linked. It's indicating left that activates the "Vehicle turning" alarm.

Which isn't any use if the driver starts that AFTER someone has funnelled down the left or was there to start with, the driver pretty much is absolved of blame if they then don't look and say well I had my signals and audible warning on. Police and CPS still rarely do anything on many occasions when clear left hooks have killed people, even across marked cycle lanes. Basically as I said earlier on, most of the responsibility to not being killed is put on the persons that do the least harm/most vulnerable and no matter what you do you can still end up under because of the dangerous and reckless actions of motorists.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
It’s not simply truck drivers drivers in general don’t indicate or pay much attention to anything on the left.

If cyclist adopt the same standards as most car drivers then they are only increasing risk of injury.

I always say that cyclists have to look after themselves safety wise.
In this case the cyclist made an error Pay the price.

In this instance it’s possible the truck driver Applied all safety procedures and was not at fault.

[Vorpal]

I always say that cyclists have to look after themselves safety wise.
In this case the cyclist made an error Pay the price.

In this instance it’s possible the truck driver Applied all safety procedures and was not at fault.

Cyclists do need to look after themselves safetywise. The problem is, that same attitude among the powers that be transfers the *responsibility* for safety onto the most vulnerable users.

If there is any chance that the driver of a large vehicle will fail to see a cyclist on the inside when they turn, then we need to either remove the vehicle, or separate the two.