Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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jonbott
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Joined: 7 Feb 2008, 12:42pm
Location: cornwall home of the hills!

Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby jonbott » 16 Feb 2019, 11:06am

locally we`ve had lights on a steep hill for ages,fine when I go downhill,but have the same situation when I`m riding home from work..either I have an idiot revving his engine to make me go faster,or people driving at me....
I`m def too old for this!

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2020, 11:26am

I've just seen something that touches on several things raised by a thread like this

Two horse riders, side-by-side reach temporary traffic lights at red and stop. The lights are just beyond a nearside junction with a minor road and the following van driver held back, either to avoid blocking the junction, spooking the horses or a combination of both. I wondered if the lights would change in those circumstances and they did. Equestrians move forward, followed by the van at a considerate distance and a double decker bus. The lights must have changed to green at the opposite end while this little cavalcade was still moving through the roadworks a clown set off towards it.

Luckily, the horses were not spooked and the riders pressed on. The oncoming driver eventually drove behind the cones to make room. Even if the riders had singled out, there was no possibility that the oncoming driver could have passed the bus.

FWIW, one of the riders was wearing one of those hi-viz tabards marked POLITE. It seems they have little effect in a case like this, but if a driver cannot see two horses + riders, a van and a double decker bus, that seems hardly surprising.

(Quiet Sunday morning BTW)

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Bmblbzzz » 21 Jun 2020, 12:24pm

"Cannot see" is moot. Just as likely to be "my right of way".

On wondering if the lights would change, presuming they were triggered by one of those infrared sensors (I'm not sure if they work on infrared but something in the optical spectrum), 2 horses present a surface at least as large as a car.

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2020, 1:14pm

I used to try to keep up-to-date with traffic light technology: vital if you want to avoid being fobbed off when there's a problem. It's good to know that they may be more sensitive these days.

I think my man this morning was concentrating entirely on the traffic lights and only looked beyond them after they had changed to green or perhaps red+amber, then set off. Then, think once, think twice, think it's a pair of gee gees ... and a van and a bus....,

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Mick F
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Mick F » 21 Jun 2020, 2:45pm

:lol: :lol:

It happens a lot.
Green mean Go ......... but only if you can see the way to be clear.

Trouble is, the (fixed) traffic lights in our village are a bit more nuanced. A390 Gunnislake.
You cannot see the other end when you set off from any of the four sets of lights, and it's fairly frequently that there's a log-jam.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.52476 ... 312!8i6656

Sometimes, temporary traffic lights can be the same.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2020, 3:18pm

In this case, the oncoming driver definitely hd the whole length of the roadworks in his line of sight, had he looked in that direction, which is what made me sure they were concentrating 100% on the signal. Had the horses been the only traffic in front of them, I could have believed that they expected them to get out of the way, but not a bus, which was very obviously going to prevent them continuing until it had passed.

In fact, another issue here was that the temporary traffic lights were unnecessary because the work on the roadworks has been suspended over the weekend. The need for the traffic lights comes from a coned-off area providing safe working space within the carriageway. The actual digging is all on the footway. Over the weekend, the cones could have been moved into the kerb with the footway closed and traffic could have used the whole carriageway. (The driver drove into the area behind the cones to let everything coming the other way pass.)

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TrevA
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby TrevA » 21 Jun 2020, 3:44pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:This isn't a problem restricted to temporary traffic lights; it applies to some permanent lights at narrow sections of road.


Yes, one that springs to mind is the climb from Glutton Bridge towards Longnor. No chance of getting through on green on a bike.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

De Sisti
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby De Sisti » 21 Jun 2020, 4:08pm

Temporary traffic lights on the A46 Shurdington Road, heading south to Stroud. Driver in a Mini Clubman
decided they had waited long enough on red and set off at speed. The lights remained on red for
about another 20 seconds. If another vehicle had exited left on the roundabout ahead (about 40 - 50
yards away) towards our dircection, there would have been a head-to-head confrontation between the
two motors.

Pebble
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Pebble » 22 Jun 2020, 9:35am

Pet hate of mine for a long time is the total disregard to cyclists when setting the timing for traffic lights, if you go through the green just before amber shows you will need to average somewhere between 17 and 22.5mph to get to the far end before oncoming is given the green to go.

They work off a distance table, and for instance, if the lights are between 150 and 200 meters they will be set to a 10 second interval between amber at one end and green at the other.

And yes, in these situations I have had cars and lorries drive at me and offer abuse, one lorry driver told me the next time he seen me jumping a red he would kill me.

17 to 22 mph, I can only manage that down hill with a tailwind.

robing
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby robing » 23 Jun 2020, 6:18pm

Had one of these today - on.a hill nowhere near enough time. I made sure I blocked the road so the cars behind me couldn't pass until I was safely through.

Another pet hate of mine - delivery drivers cutting across in front of you from the opposite side of the road to stop.

Pete Owens
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Pete Owens » 24 Jun 2020, 10:26am

It isn't just temporary traffic lights, permanent lights are not designed for cycling speeds. This is not an issue for small junctions - we can accelerate to normal cycling speed at the same rate as a motor vehicles which gets us through most junctions. However, if you are turning right at large junction.

I turn right here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.343188,-2.6305438,3a,75y,260.65h,99.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVO6bn2IKp7IELMbCFmgvaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
on my way to work, and often come into conflict with cars turning left from the opposite direction.

hemo
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby hemo » 24 Jun 2020, 10:36am

Permanent lights can be equally as bad.
Very close to my house there is a rail tunnel single lane controlled by lights by the time you are about 60 -70% of the way thru the lights change again even if you are already at about 12/13mph. At a standing start they change when you are about halfway thru.
From one side the road sensors pick the bike/rider weight up and the lights change, on the other side they don't so you have to either wait for a car to come from behind, ride on the path then re-join the road. Taking a chance and riding the light is a no no as you can't see any cars approaching from other side due to the road bending.

Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Bmblbzzz » 24 Jun 2020, 3:46pm

Pete Owens wrote:It isn't just temporary traffic lights, permanent lights are not designed for cycling speeds. This is not an issue for small junctions - we can accelerate to normal cycling speed at the same rate as a motor vehicles which gets us through most junctions. However, if you are turning right at large junction.

I turn right here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.343188,-2.6305438,3a,75y,260.65h,99.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVO6bn2IKp7IELMbCFmgvaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
on my way to work, and often come into conflict with cars turning left from the opposite direction.

That whole junction looks rather human-unfriendly.

Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby Pete Owens » 24 Jun 2020, 7:23pm

It was better when it used to be a roundabout.

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary traffic lights - inadequate time for passage

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Jun 2020, 8:20pm

By definition, temporary traffic lights are temporary so by the time any problems have been reported they are history.

Permanent installations are quite different and IMO, should be reported. This is particularly so with detectors that do not detect cyclists. At a busy junction, this may only be apparent at quieter times because motor traffic will arrive and the lights will change and it's unrealistic to expect them to deal with something of which they are unaware.