Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

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Cugel
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby Cugel » 8 Nov 2018, 12:40pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
No path is not narrow.

I believe that these dog walkers do not want me or any cyclist there or maybe its just me :?

.....
But what to do except avoid the cycle paths altogether, then what's the point in having the cycle path.

When I am on a road I have been targeted by several cars driving within inches of my bars, same road and several mornings sometime twice in one week by same car :evil: :evil: :evil:

........


I'm a dog walker as well as a cyclist. I don't want cyclists on the footpaths either as they typically have little or no consideration for what others wish to do there. Many seem like car drivers - "on a mission" to go fast, suffer not the slightest delay or otherwise expect others to "GET OUT MY WAY".

The canal footpath is a haven for walkers and for dogs, who may be confined in the canal's corridor but able to roam and run as dogs must do. They are of no problem to other walkers. They are no problem to cyclists who understand dogs and are willing to slow or otherwise take care. They may be a problem to some fool Strava-striving or imagining himself on that mission requiring 20mph and no braking or deviation from the line.

***
As another notes, you seem to attract unpleasant incidents. Or perhaps you over-react to them as you can't see why people behave that way. Even if they are wholly wrong and you are wholly right, theoretically speaking, it's sometimes best to be stoical and forgiving, as this at least allows the possibility of a relationship in which both parties can move to a change of attitude and a compromise that satisfies both.

In short, why not learn to deal with other people as they are rather than as you would wish them to be so you can change them to what you would wish them to be?

Cugel

peetee
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby peetee » 8 Nov 2018, 1:43pm

I can understand the appeal of towpath riding as another opportunity for peaceful, traffic free time but if that's what you crave then it's not too big a leap to understand that that is what non-cyclists do too. The problem with that is that pedestrians see bikes as traffic and the speed difference and relative silence of their approach surprises and often frightens people enjoying the slow, tranquil environment beside a canal.
Just as cyclists get irked by the speed difference between them and vehicles so do pedestrians with cyclists.
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Postboxer
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby Postboxer » 8 Nov 2018, 2:17pm

100%JR wrote:Cycle path or shared path?
You seem to be attracting incidents lately?Someone or persons with a grudge against cyclists in general?



I was wondering if there were some badly behaved cyclists on the same routes as the OP making the local pedestrians more anti-cyclist.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 8 Nov 2018, 2:43pm

Hi,
I wonder how long it would be for me to be accused of some wrong doing.
Other post-
Car blocks road cycle path bridle path and in one go.
I ask driver to move so I can pass safely.
Eventually I decide to go past the squeeze.
The car chases me down cycle path (also road to two houses but dead end road) revving engine.
I dismount fearing I will be knocked of.
Driver gets out and throws my bike into hedge.
Driver chases me on foot attempts to fist me in face and eventually kicks me drawing blood.
I always move away so I cannot been seen as an aggressor.
Eventually I return to my bike in middle of cycle path / bridleway.
Car driver gets in car and drives into my body twice.
I phone 999, retrieve my bike and walk away down path.
Car follows me down path till staggered gates and shouts abuse down my phone too police.
Police give me a crime number.
I go home.
Some time later a few days I report incident on line quoting number.
Police man phones me all enthusiastic a cyclist themselves.
Send police videos, says not sure they have tech to read SD cards............................
Some time later, I email police.
Ten days since sending videos.
Reply I have located your sd card will review later.
Email from police, not enough evidence.............will have strong words with driver.

-----------------

Cycling along cycle path, chased by same dog several times no attempt by owners to control dogs.
Ask dog owner s to control dogs.
Stoney faced (dog walkers) and when I say you have to keep dogs under control, this dog owner says " Oh I don't take any notice of law)
Dogs continue to chase me so I ignore the owners as much as I can.
Constant verbal abuse in that area from many dog walkers.
They block my path shout swear words etc etc etc........................

Then the other day this particular dog walker shoulder barged me as I passed.

So what would you do next :?:
Bend over and lick their ...............boots!

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... ff47e42c52
"Our social media moderators spent hours deleting vicious attacks filled with swearing, insults and blaming from both cyclists and motorists. Eventually we had to simply turn the comments off. It was clearly getting out of hand.
Tom Reynolds, the general manger of marketing and communications, at Cycling Australia told news.com.au the debate between both sides had become toxic.
“There’s just a warped sense of blame and I think it mainly stems from congestion and the fact that people think cycling contributes to that,” he said.
“We tend to dehumanise cyclists because they ‘annoy’ us. People will get out and yell at cyclists because of congestion, but not at the 100 cars up the road."
Last edited by NATURAL ANKLING on 8 Nov 2018, 2:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
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brooksby
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby brooksby » 8 Nov 2018, 2:49pm

Cugel wrote:The canal footpath is a haven for walkers and for dogs, who may be confined in the canal's corridor but able to roam and run as dogs must do. They are of no problem to other walkers. They are no problem to cyclists who understand dogs and are willing to slow or otherwise take care. They may be a problem to some fool Strava-striving or imagining himself on that mission requiring 20mph and no braking or deviation from the line.


What about HC Rule 56? Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.

fastpedaller
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby fastpedaller » 8 Nov 2018, 2:52pm

Unfortunately it seems our country has now become lawless - I'm not condoning violence, but (in the case of the car driver/farm track) the only way now to beat the aggressor is to do exactly that :(
Last edited by fastpedaller on 8 Nov 2018, 6:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby mjr » 8 Nov 2018, 2:55pm

brooksby wrote:
Cugel wrote:The canal footpath [...]


What about HC Rule 56? Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.

I may be wrong, but I don't think canal towpaths (not footpaths! Naughty!) are often highways (a few are bridleways or even roads now, but far from all), so applying the Highway Code is debatable. I think the old British Waterways put out a towpath code that made it clear that animals > walkers > cyclists on them, but I've not checked if the Canals and Rivers Trust has similar because the few towpaths open to me are bridleways.

In general, I don't think NA is doing much wrong from the sounds of it. Certainly nothing that should excuse such assaults.
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brooksby
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby brooksby » 8 Nov 2018, 2:57pm

mjr wrote:
brooksby wrote:
Cugel wrote:The canal footpath [...]


What about HC Rule 56? Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.


I may be wrong, but I don't think canal towpaths (not footpaths! Naughty!) are often highways (a few are bridleways or even roads now, but far from all), so applying the Highway Code is debatable. I think the old British Waterways put out a towpath code that made it clear that animals > walkers > cyclists on them, but I've not checked if the Canals and Rivers Trust has similar.

In general, I don't think NA is doing much wrong from the sounds of it. Certainly nothing that should excuse such assaults.



Oh, OK - didn't know that.

I agree that it sounds more like some people just have it in for NA and that they could be walking along there dressed in white and with a halo and some people on their route would find it a problem. Does that count as harassment, if there's a pattern to it?

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Cugel
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby Cugel » 8 Nov 2018, 3:03pm

Postboxer wrote:
100%JR wrote:Cycle path or shared path?
You seem to be attracting incidents lately?Someone or persons with a grudge against cyclists in general?



I was wondering if there were some badly behaved cyclists on the same routes as the OP making the local pedestrians more anti-cyclist.


Sadly, a distinct and near-certain probability. I can't recall one of our many local shared paths where at some time there hasn't been inconsiderate and even dangerous cyclist behaviour towards pedestrians; and rarely the other way about. They do get the rest of us a bad name, so I do my utmost to be considerate and very friendly. A stop for a chat often goes down well, as does a pet of their hound.

Many cyclists are fine, though. It tends to be the sporty types who have the idea that they are special and must not be delayed. I've suffered similar attitudes and associated treatment from barging runners. Even the odd fisherman can get quite obstructive! (But only a tiny percentage of them).

Cugel

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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Nov 2018, 3:12pm

On this thread or the other from NA, at least one poster suggested a camera and I think that's worth considering since having some decent evidence can be invaluable, or it would be if anybody took notice.

Camera footage can also be good as a way of reviewing your own behaviour, assuming you are prepared to be self-critical. One problem in this type of situation is when two people are convinced they are both right as in self-righteous. I see a difference between incidents where one party is oblivious of the problem their selfishness is causing eg close overtaking, not dipping headlights; and those where both sides are starting to dig in eg when they believe they have priority and/or the other person has no right to be there.

re Cugel's post which went up as I was typing, that's pretty much my experience. It's a pity that it should be so.

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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby Cugel » 8 Nov 2018, 3:23pm

brooksby wrote:
mjr wrote:
brooksby wrote:
What about HC Rule 56? Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.


I may be wrong, but I don't think canal towpaths (not footpaths! Naughty!) are often highways (a few are bridleways or even roads now, but far from all), so applying the Highway Code is debatable. I think the old British Waterways put out a towpath code that made it clear that animals > walkers > cyclists on them, but I've not checked if the Canals and Rivers Trust has similar.

In general, I don't think NA is doing much wrong from the sounds of it. Certainly nothing that should excuse such assaults.



Oh, OK - didn't know that.

I agree that it sounds more like some people just have it in for NA and that they could be walking along there dressed in white and with a halo and some people on their route would find it a problem. Does that count as harassment, if there's a pattern to it?


There are various places where walkers, runners, dogs, cyclists and even horses share the way. In some such places, it's reasonable to allow the dog or horse or child to run about freely and the onus is on the speeding cyclist to slow down. In other places, the dog, child or horse should be under close control and kept off the section segregated for the use of cyclists.

No doubt there are rules or even laws that should be obeyed. In practice, people allow children and dogs to run about and this is generally fine unless a cyclist want to go at 20mph with never a brake or a deviation. It's for this reason, btw, that I find myself agin' such shared paths where speed differentials and close-controls are encouraged. They don't really work well with real humans doing real human behaviour.

Cycling on the road - much better, despite the cars.

Cugel

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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby mjr » 8 Nov 2018, 3:35pm

Cugel wrote:There are various places where walkers, runners, dogs, cyclists and even horses share the way. In some such places, it's reasonable to allow the dog or horse or child to run about freely and the onus is on the speeding cyclist to slow down. In other places, the dog, child or horse should be under close control and kept off the section segregated for the use of cyclists.

Yes, and those "other places" are "highways" but some animals owners seem to think that the law requiring things like dogs to be kept under control doesn't apply to their beloved pet and they can be allowed to run wild just because there are no killer motorists on that highway.

Cugel wrote:No doubt there are rules or even laws that should be obeyed. In practice, people allow children and dogs to run about and this is generally fine unless a cyclist want to go at 20mph with never a brake or a deviation.

No, it's really not fine to allow them to run about, even though I'm not a speeding cyclist refusing to brake or bend. Even when I'm walking, I don't want to be hounded by a slobbery mutt and have to take avoiding action or defend myself.

Cugel wrote:It's for this reason, btw, that I find myself agin' such shared paths where speed differentials and close-controls are encouraged. They don't really work well with real humans doing real human behaviour.

Cycling on the road - much better, despite the cars.

:roll: I assume "the road" means the carriageway there (although cycle tracks are roads too), where the lawbreaking of "real human behaviour" is far more likely to kill you. Sorry but I feel that's one of the least comprehensible reasons for opposing cycle tracks (if that's what you mean by "such shared paths" although technically carriageways are also "shared paths where speed differentials and close-controls are encouraged") instead of promoting obeying the law everywhere.

Once again, cyclists on here seem to love blaming other cyclists. :-(
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby Wanlock Dod » 8 Nov 2018, 3:49pm

I think that it is worth reflecting on whether or not the path would meet the minimum standard. Whilst I appreciate that it is not mandatory it is usually rather surprising how much bigger and better a facility would have been if it had met the recommended minimum standard for the conditions. Should we not be blaming councils and planners for inadequate provision, rather than those caught up on the results of such inadequacies?

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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby mjr » 8 Nov 2018, 4:07pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:I think that it is worth reflecting on whether or not the path would meet the minimum standard. Whilst I appreciate that it is not mandatory it is usually rather surprising how much bigger and better a facility would have been if it had met the recommended minimum standard for the conditions. Should we not be blaming councils and planners for inadequate provision, rather than those caught up on the results of such inadequacies?

Aye! It's a stark contrast:
· carriageway substandard = motorists crash, everyone nearby gets injured, anything nearby gets damaged = carriageway corrected at great expense pretty quickly;
· cycle track substandard = cyclists slow down and at worst, cyclists crash, mostly cyclists get injured, mostly bikes get damaged = left unfixed for years. :-(

It would seem cyclists are just far too nice for our own good. If we started destroying the stuff we crashed into, would things get fixed sooner?

Blame the various levels of government for their failure to build to minimum standards. Make council leaders have to cycle what they build at least a few times.
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Re: Shoulder Barged By Pedestrian On A Cycle Path

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Nov 2018, 4:10pm

Once again, cyclists on here seem to love blaming other cyclists


It's something to do with not seeing everything in black and white. Anglers were mentioned and I've arrived at a towpath angling competition when a few inconsiderate riders have just bundled past and have had to placate some angry anglers.

As road conditions have deteriorated for cyclists, it's inevitable that some have sought out alternatives. Riding a bike does not in itself make somebody good or bad. Their travel mode may be better for the planet but it doesn't turn them into saints.

What's become known as anti-social behaviour is about selfishness as much as anything.

Re the quality of farcilities, a big problem is ignorance about different types of provision, whatever the standard.