HEDGE TRIMMING

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
reohn2
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby reohn2 » 18 Dec 2018, 3:46pm

pwa wrote:
9494arnold wrote:Hedge trimmings are Litter. Pure and simple. :evil: :x

A nuisance (in the wrong place) certainly. Litter? No. Litter is man made stuff such cans and wrappers, not bits of trees.

Waddabout leaf litter? :wink:
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pwa
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby pwa » 18 Dec 2018, 3:47pm

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:
9494arnold wrote:Hedge trimmings are Litter. Pure and simple. :evil: :x

A nuisance (in the wrong place) certainly. Litter? No. Litter is man made stuff such cans and wrappers, not bits of trees.

Waddabout leaf litter? :wink:

Ermmm...

MikeF
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Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby MikeF » 18 Dec 2018, 4:31pm

9494arnold wrote:Hedge trimmings are Litter. Pure and simple. :evil: :x
In an urban area maybe, or if collected and fly tipped, but otherwise generally not. No more so than leaves. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby MikeF » 18 Dec 2018, 4:36pm

One way of reducing the problem of clippings on the road is for the tractor to have a blower fitted. This won't eliminate them, but will keep the main part of the road fairly clear, but unfortunately most contractors/farmers don't use this.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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RickH
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby RickH » 19 Dec 2018, 12:28am

Riding around the Chester area (tandem piloting) I find the problem is relatively insignificant. When we encounter a tractor "doing" the hedges there is relatively little overspill of thorny clippings on the roads (for whatever reason - type of cutting, shielding of blades, etc.). On the road the cars clear/squash what is left over.

We did have a few problems a few years ago, but that was clippings (that didn't get cleared by traffic) on the canal towpath between Chester & Ellesmere Port.

DaveGos
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Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 12:40pm

Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby DaveGos » 21 Dec 2018, 11:30pm

I have had 2 punctures due to thorns in recent weeks. Its amazing how they get through Kevlar bands, . Thorns are so strong in one direction but then weak in the other and often break off when you are trying to extract them. They usually cause slow punctures in my experience, as the tube seems to close around then .

I live down a single track lane . I have not seen a farmer clean up after hedge cutting for a few years but they used to walk down the lane with a small hand blower blowinfg the debris into the side of the road . Not sure this helped as first rain washed it back out. A few yards from me we had a potatoe field this year . When getting the potatoes out we had a tractor a minute down the lane with around an inch of mud. Amazingly they had a road cleaning attachment for the tractor and used it. Never seen a farmer do this before , though its standard enforced practise with quarries and housing developments.

Main thing that makes lanes muddy these days is the big tractors all with trailers and 4 by 4 that just drive up the lane embankments rather than slow down , these days

pwa
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby pwa » 22 Dec 2018, 9:31am

At the moment the biggest mess on the rural roads around here is from sites where new housing is being constructed. They tend to have road sweepers but they just spread it more evenly. The farmers, in comparison, have been pretty tidy recently. I am fairly tolerant on farming mess though. Agriculture in general involves a lot of mess, especially in wet weather, and some mess on the lanes is reasonable up to a point.

xerxes
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby xerxes » 23 Dec 2018, 3:31pm

Another downside to hedge cutting in Autumn is the effect on birds. Hedgerows contain lots of berries (including the cyclists' bete noire hawthorn) which are essential food for many species during the winter months.

Having said that, I'm not sure what would be the best time of year for hedge cutting. In spring birds will be nesting. Maybe January/February when most of the berries will have been eaten?

pwa
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby pwa » 23 Dec 2018, 4:42pm

xerxes wrote:Another downside to hedge cutting in Autumn is the effect on birds. Hedgerows contain lots of berries (including the cyclists' bete noire hawthorn) which are essential food for many species during the winter months.

Having said that, I'm not sure what would be the best time of year for hedge cutting. In spring birds will be nesting. Maybe January/February when most of the berries will have been eaten?

Yes, February would be about right. But I can understand a farmer wanting to get on with whatever jobs they can do at any particular time and if they don't have much else on at the moment......

Ben@Forest
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby Ben@Forest » 24 Dec 2018, 6:48am

xerxes wrote:Another downside to hedge cutting in Autumn is the effect on birds. Hedgerows contain lots of berries (including the cyclists' bete noire hawthorn) which are essential food for many species during the winter months.

Having said that, I'm not sure what would be the best time of year for hedge cutting. In spring birds will be nesting. Maybe January/February when most of the berries will have been eaten?


This is why hedges are often cut on a two year or sometimes three year cycle and why you will see a cut hedge on one side of the road and an uncut one on the other. The uncut one has been left for nature conservation reasons.

I have seen this written into hedge cutting contracts.

Labrat
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby Labrat » 24 Dec 2018, 10:36am

xerxes wrote:Another downside to hedge cutting in Autumn is the effect on birds. Hedgerows contain lots of berries (including the cyclists' bete noire hawthorn) which are essential food for many species during the winter months.

Having said that, I'm not sure what would be the best time of year for hedge cutting. In spring birds will be nesting. Maybe January/February when most of the berries will have been eaten?


RPA cross compliance rules prohibit hedge cutting between 1 March and 31 July - agree on your point regards preserving winter berries, most of the farms round here wait till they are largely stripped from the trees before starting cutting

9494arnold
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Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby 9494arnold » 27 Dec 2018, 4:07pm

For England and Wales, dropping litter is a criminal offence under Section 87(1) of the EPA 1990, such that:

'A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it'.

The provision continues by explaining that it is irrelevant whether the litter is deposited on land or in water, whether on public property or private property (i.e. regardless of ownership), provided that the place is open to the air (on at least one side) and the public has access to it, even if only with payment.

The Explanatory Notes to the 2005 Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act further explain that the offence of dropping litter extends beyond land, to dropping litter into bodies of water, such as rivers or lakes, and includes throwing litter from a road or public place onto adjacent private land.

The area of a local authority in a coastal area extends down to the low-water mark under Section 72 of the 1972 Local Government Act. Therefore, it is also an offence to drop litter anywhere above the low water mark, which makes it an offence to drop litter on beaches.

It can be observed that under Section 87(4A) of the EPA 1990, no offence is committed where the litter is: (a) authorised by law or (b) done by or with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person having control of the place where it is deposited.

The criminal offence of littering and the wording used in the EPA 1990 originated from the 1958 Litter Act. The offence as originally envisaged only applied to places where the public had the right of access without payment. Today, this element of the offence has changed, and it is now an offence to litter even in places where the public can enter only on payment.

What still remains a point of confusion, however, is the requirement that the place be 'open to the air'. This element is not a problem for completely open spaces such as roads, parks and village greens, but can be tricky where the space is covered, such as with buildings. For example, due to the need for the building to be open on at least one side, 'open spaces' include bus shelters but not old-style telephone boxes which are covered and only have a door. DEFRA's guidance states, 'it is intended that this (i.e. open to the air) should apply to any covered place with a significant, permanent opening on at least one side, such as a bus shelter, railway platform or garage forecourt that remains open to the air at all times'.

To clarify the situation further, DEFRA have stated that the offence applies on:

Public open spaces: village greens, gardens, play areas, football pitches, etc;
Private land;
Highways: roads, pavements, footways, bridleways, ginnels, etc;
All places that are open to the air on at least one side, such as a railway station, bus shelter, etc. to which the public have access
School grounds
At the coast, down to the low water mark
Ponds, lakes reservoirs and rivers.
However, it was acknowledged during Parliamentary debates about the EPA 1990 that there may be practical difficulties with the legislative definition:

Like I said : Litter.

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby pwa » 27 Dec 2018, 7:15pm

9494arnold wrote:For England and Wales, dropping litter is a criminal offence under Section 87(1) of the EPA 1990, such that:

'A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it'.

The provision continues by explaining that it is irrelevant whether the litter is deposited on land or in water, whether on public property or private property (i.e. regardless of ownership), provided that the place is open to the air (on at least one side) and the public has access to it, even if only with payment.

The Explanatory Notes to the 2005 Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act further explain that the offence of dropping litter extends beyond land, to dropping litter into bodies of water, such as rivers or lakes, and includes throwing litter from a road or public place onto adjacent private land.

The area of a local authority in a coastal area extends down to the low-water mark under Section 72 of the 1972 Local Government Act. Therefore, it is also an offence to drop litter anywhere above the low water mark, which makes it an offence to drop litter on beaches.

It can be observed that under Section 87(4A) of the EPA 1990, no offence is committed where the litter is: (a) authorised by law or (b) done by or with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person having control of the place where it is deposited.

The criminal offence of littering and the wording used in the EPA 1990 originated from the 1958 Litter Act. The offence as originally envisaged only applied to places where the public had the right of access without payment. Today, this element of the offence has changed, and it is now an offence to litter even in places where the public can enter only on payment.

What still remains a point of confusion, however, is the requirement that the place be 'open to the air'. This element is not a problem for completely open spaces such as roads, parks and village greens, but can be tricky where the space is covered, such as with buildings. For example, due to the need for the building to be open on at least one side, 'open spaces' include bus shelters but not old-style telephone boxes which are covered and only have a door. DEFRA's guidance states, 'it is intended that this (i.e. open to the air) should apply to any covered place with a significant, permanent opening on at least one side, such as a bus shelter, railway platform or garage forecourt that remains open to the air at all times'.

To clarify the situation further, DEFRA have stated that the offence applies on:

Public open spaces: village greens, gardens, play areas, football pitches, etc;
Private land;
Highways: roads, pavements, footways, bridleways, ginnels, etc;
All places that are open to the air on at least one side, such as a railway station, bus shelter, etc. to which the public have access
School grounds
At the coast, down to the low water mark
Ponds, lakes reservoirs and rivers.
However, it was acknowledged during Parliamentary debates about the EPA 1990 that there may be practical difficulties with the legislative definition:

Like I said : Litter.

None of that defines nuisance hedge clippings as litter.

9494arnold
Posts: 842
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 3:13pm

Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby 9494arnold » 28 Dec 2018, 8:24am

From the DEFRA Code Of Practice on Litter:

5.5 Detritus, which comprises small,broken down particles of synthetic and natural materials, arrive at the site
through the same displacement effects associated with mechanical, human,animal and natural actions, most of which
also determine the distribution of litter.Detritus includes dust, mud, soil, grit,gravel, stones, rotted leaf and vegetable
residues, and fragments of twigs, glass,plastic and other finely divided materials.Leaf and blossom falls are to be regarded
as detritus once they have substantially lost their structure and have become mushy or fragmented. A significant and
avoidable source of detritus is uncollected grass cuttings and weed growth from seeds germinating in moist detritus.

5.6 Large accumulations of detritus, built up over months and years, can contribute to the uncared for impression an area
exudes. Detritus on metalled highways must be removed as a requirement of these. S89 duty to keep highways clean and it
is also recommended that detritus should be removed alongside litter and refuse by uty bodies from all other hard surfaces

The precise wording can be seen here Environmental Protection Act 1990 S89(1)

EPA Section 89 (1) imposes a duty on certain bodies including educational institutions, local authorities and Highways England

… to ensure that the land under their control is, so far as is practicable, kept clear of litter and refuse.

pwa
Posts: 10255
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: HEDGE TRIMMING

Postby pwa » 28 Dec 2018, 8:47am

9494arnold wrote:From the DEFRA Code Of Practice on Litter:

5.5 Detritus, which comprises small,broken down particles of synthetic and natural materials, arrive at the site
through the same displacement effects associated with mechanical, human,animal and natural actions, most of which
also determine the distribution of litter.Detritus includes dust, mud, soil, grit,gravel, stones, rotted leaf and vegetable
residues, and fragments of twigs, glass,plastic and other finely divided materials.Leaf and blossom falls are to be regarded
as detritus once they have substantially lost their structure and have become mushy or fragmented. A significant and
avoidable source of detritus is uncollected grass cuttings and weed growth from seeds germinating in moist detritus.

5.6 Large accumulations of detritus, built up over months and years, can contribute to the uncared for impression an area
exudes. Detritus on metalled highways must be removed as a requirement of these. S89 duty to keep highways clean and it
is also recommended that detritus should be removed alongside litter and refuse by uty bodies from all other hard surfaces

The precise wording can be seen here Environmental Protection Act 1990 S89(1)

EPA Section 89 (1) imposes a duty on certain bodies including educational institutions, local authorities and Highways England

… to ensure that the land under their control is, so far as is practicable, kept clear of litter and refuse.


"Detritus should be removed alongside litter" implies that while they may be regarded in the same way for certain purposes, they are not the same thing. If you say "detritus" I can agree with most of what you are saying.

From my own personal standpoint, while no "litter" is acceptable, "detritus" becomes unacceptable above certain levels. To give an example of what I mean, if I cut a grass verge and a small amount of cut grass remains on the road edge after sweeping, that could be at an acceptable level. But if I tip bags of grass on the edge of a lane that would be unacceptable.

I have cut hedges, and I tidy up afterwards. But then the wind picks up and fragments that were initially caught in the hedge blow free and end up on the ground possibly hours or days after the clearing up. I have some tolerance for that, but not for long, dense drifts of hedge clippings. Where exactly the detritus level becomes unacceptable will vary from one person to another, but when you are considering shouldering your bike we have gone beyond that level.