Driving to stop in distance you can see

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brynpoeth
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Nov 2018, 5:07pm

Barks wrote:Well if this idiot is an experienced road tester what was he doing :wink: driving at 60mph around a blind bend - I reiterate he is an idiot and arrogant to boot. He is not fit to drive a car on the public highway and the police in this case have let us down.

Right again
If he was not a sleb, he is now, I and many others had mercifully never heard of him before :(
Won't bother remembering his name mind :?
Happened in Wales too, -1
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
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thirdcrank
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Nov 2018, 6:05pm

This is what happens if dangerous and careless driving are measured by what currently passes as normal, rather than being assessed by compliance with the HC.

I fancy the speed-not-a-factor idea means not breaking the speed limit. Thus, we have the situation where the national limit on a single carriageway is 60 mph, even if it's physically impossible to reach it in a given location. Suggest that a lower limit would be appropriate and the official response would be that that drivers must drive at a safe speed below that limit. Suggest they are not doing so and the official response is that what they are doing is (perfectly) legal.

Others have pointed out that anything might be round a blind bend. If death results, there will be a more thorough investigation, but to little purpose, because driving like that has become normal and therefore OK.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby Bonefishblues » 24 Nov 2018, 6:48pm

Barks wrote:Well if this idiot is an experienced road tester what was he doing driving at 60mph around a blind bend - I reiterate he is an idiot and arrogant to boot. He is not fit to drive a car on the public highway and the police in this case have let us down.

I couldn't see his speed in the report, did you pick it up somewhere else?

Barks
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby Barks » 25 Nov 2018, 3:54pm

I re-read the report and you are right the 60mph figure refers to the acceleration capability of the car not the speed it was going, so my erroneous interpretation. Has it altered my view that he was driving too fast the situation, hardly at all. If he had been driving at an appropriate speed he would have been able to stop in time, so he remains culpable in my view. (And I don’t absolve the other driver carrying out 3 point turn when he can’t see both ways, he is also an idiot). If only one had been an idiot, the collision would most likely have been avoided, two idiots however and ‘bam’.

thirdcrank
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Nov 2018, 4:07pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46180051

I take it that the picture of the crashed car in that link is at the scene. If so, the road doesn't look like one where 60mph would be possible. However, nobody can see round corners although some seem to drive as though they can.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Nov 2018, 4:53pm

Barks wrote:I re-read the report and you are right the 60mph figure refers to the acceleration capability of the car not the speed it was going, so my erroneous interpretation. Has it altered my view that he was driving too fast the situation, hardly at all. If he had been driving at an appropriate speed he would have been able to stop in time, so he remains culpable in my view. (And I don’t absolve the other driver carrying out 3 point turn when he can’t see both ways, he is also an idiot). If only one had been an idiot, the collision would most likely have been avoided, two idiots however and ‘bam’.

I think that was my instinctive reaction (well I know it was when I was contributing on another (car!) Forum), but now I think that I don't have enough info to make a judgement tbh. Others (with equally little info as me) suggested that it may be the case that the pickup started to execute the move at the last minute, for instance. Who knows? It certainly wasn't a situation where there was a full-on collision, if you look at Harris's car, where the n/s wing is where the impact was. The Police were in attendance, and only one party is being charged, and I guess we have to go with that as the best indicator.

Barks
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby Barks » 26 Nov 2018, 12:53pm

Yes without the full detail of speeds etc it is impossible to come to an informed decision. I do know the bend in question and despite my renewed efforts at dispelling both conscious and unconscious bias I am afraid my suspicions that he was travelling at an inappropriate speed remain. In terms of my driving I will treat such ‘bend speed reduction’ signs with even more caution.

james01
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby james01 » 26 Nov 2018, 2:17pm

Bonefishblues wrote: The Police were in attendance, and only one party is being charged, and I guess we have to go with that as the best indicator.


But can we trust the police conclusion? Maybe in this particular case. But I do read of more and more incidents where police don't charge drivers who have ploughed into stationary vehicles/ pedestrians etc, and the police conclude that it was "unavoidable". (In some cases the accident wasn't even around a blind corner!).

thirdcrank
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Nov 2018, 2:27pm

I think you can take it that the police conclusion is based on the view taken by the entire system about poor driving. As in "does it fall below the standard expected?"

Bonefishblues
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby Bonefishblues » 26 Nov 2018, 5:43pm

thirdcrank wrote:I think you can take it that the police conclusion is based on the view taken by the entire system about poor driving. As in "does it fall below the standard expected?"

We can't really make a judgement tbh. It's only where there's a fatality that we can a 'proper' investigation that would tell us.

thirdcrank
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Nov 2018, 7:14pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ... We can't really make a judgement tbh. It's only where there's a fatality that we can a 'proper' investigation that would tell us.


Yes, but as most cases don't result in death, when they do, dangerous/ careless driving tends to be measured against this day-to-day standard. Although the death triggers a more thorough investigation, if it shows that the driving was what now passes as OK, then a conviction is that much less likely. Then, the fact that any given impact is more likely to kill a pedestrian or cyclist than the occupant of a motor vehicle means that the casualties are seen as the problem.

Not driving within the distance you can see to be clear is a pretty obvious error of driving, but as long as it's acceptable, it's not going to be seen as an offence. Also, as the roads become busier, doing this is more likely to lead to a crash on the laws of chance. If you are driving the only vehicle on the road, you won't meet one coming the other way, but even remote roads now carry much more traffic in the form of couriers, commuters etc. It's a bit of a paradox that as more traffic makes a crash more likely, so driving in this manner is considered OK.

robing
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby robing » 26 Nov 2018, 8:49pm

I cycled past beautiful Tintern Abbey on my lejog in June. Glad I didn't encounter this d***head or I might not be here now!

People seem to forget the speed limit is just that - a limit and not necessarily the speed you should be going at.

peetee
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby peetee » 26 Nov 2018, 10:34pm

robing wrote:I cycled past beautiful Tintern Abbey on my lejog in June. Glad I didn't encounter this d***head or I might not be here now!

People seem to forget the speed limit is just that - a limit and not necessarily the speed you should be going at.


Last year I drove to Aberystwyth and coming down a long hill at about 8:30am an idiot in a sooped up car drove at ridiculous speed uphill round a blind left hand bend hugging the curb and flicking up grit and debris in the process. Thank God the club cyclists I had seen previously were a good 7 miles ahead of him with a good stretch of open road to cover. If we had all been on the same bit of road that driver would have got the lot of them. Apparently that road is one of the most dangerous in the country. I have driven it a few times and it doesn't strike me as remarkable. I have to surmise it's just attracting the wrong sort.
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robing
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Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see

Postby robing » 27 Nov 2018, 2:24pm

Some people should not be in charge of 2 tons of metal. I can just picture Top Gear milking this showing the wrecked Porsche and Chris Harris looking pleased as punch while the audience whoops and cheers.