He wasn't in a Wange Wover

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Oldjohnw
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Oldjohnw » 7 Dec 2018, 10:11am

can fully sympathise with the cyclist's reaction to being unfairly accused.


Remind me, what was Mr Belligerent being accused of?
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Airsporter1st
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Airsporter1st » 7 Dec 2018, 10:18am

Oldjohnw wrote:
can fully sympathise with the cyclist's reaction to being unfairly accused.


Remind me, what was Mr Belligerent being accused of?


You might like to consult a dictionary:

accuse
[uh-kyooz]
verb (used with object), ac·cused, ac·cus·ing.
to charge with the fault, offense, or crime (usually followed by of):
He accused him of murder.
to find fault with; blame.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 24 Dec 2018, 5:26pm

cyclemad wrote:There is no power to request removal on this occasion but his actions were causing a breach of the peace and so could have been arrested.


Incorrect. A BoP occurs when an act is done, or threatened to be done, which harms a person or in his presence their property, yadda yadda etc. The wearing of a mask does not constitute a BoP.


Peoples reactions to it could constitute a BoP, or a public order offence, but they are accountable for their own actions.


And, yes, the cyclist was being an arriss, but that's another matter. As a young Bobby I got sent to a similar incident, a guy in the street wearing a balaclava. He wasn't doing anything wrong, so having been sent to check it out I had to ask the obvious question - "yes, because I'm waiting for my boss to open up and its bleeding cold!" I laughed, apologised for troubling him, and 30 seconds or so later his boss indeed let him in. If the cyclist had chosen to be similarly friendly it would have been an utter non event, but it's his behaviour that got the story into the Hysteria Sheets, no one elses.
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cyclemad
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby cyclemad » 24 Dec 2018, 10:52pm

Definition of Breach of The Peace;-
the behaviour of the person involved caused the police officer (or private citizen) to believe that: ... it related to harm which was actually done or likely to be done to a person or, in his/ her presence, their property

emphasis on Believe and Likely are the important bits...
So does the person who called the cops believe that the chap in the face mask is likely to cause injury or damage to the their property ?

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Cunobelin
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 8:57am

There is s strong suggestion that he had been equally aggressive with School Staff

Airsporter1st
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Airsporter1st » 25 Dec 2018, 10:21am

Cunobelin wrote:There is s strong suggestion that he had been equally aggressive with School Staff


Having encountered self-righteous school staff exceeding their authority in the past, I would still keep an open mind as to who was really at fault here. On reflection, I think the simple fact is that none of us really know the events that led to this confrontation in which neither the cyclist nor the policeman aquitted themselves particularly well.

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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Dec 2018, 10:42am

... Having encountered self-righteous school staff exceeding their authority in the past, I would still keep an open mind as to who was really at fault here. ...


I didn't bother watching the video but I've followed this with interest. One of the biggest areas of ordinary police work is dealing with third party allegations. Whatever anybody thinks about power-mad headteachers, it would be a very brave police officer who dismissed something they alleged on that basis alone. Or on the basis that the person complained about was a cyclist and thus incapable of the slightest wrongdoing.

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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Airsporter1st » 25 Dec 2018, 11:06am

thirdcrank wrote:
... Having encountered self-righteous school staff exceeding their authority in the past, I would still keep an open mind as to who was really at fault here. ...


I didn't bother watching the video but I've followed this with interest. One of the biggest areas of ordinary police work is dealing with third party allegations. Whatever anybody thinks about power-mad headteachers, it would be a very brave police officer who dismissed something they alleged on that basis alone. Or on the basis that the person complained about was a cyclist and thus incapable of the slightest wrongdoing.


I'm not sure who suggested that, but it was not I.

thirdcrank
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Dec 2018, 12:13pm

Airsporter1st wrote: ... I'm not sure who suggested that, but it was not I.


Nor was it my intention to suggest it was you. If it's not completely clear, I'm more than happy to say that this is a comment on the thread more generally.

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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Airsporter1st » 25 Dec 2018, 12:35pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote: ... I'm not sure who suggested that, but it was not I.


Nor was it my intention to suggest it was you. If it's not completely clear, I'm more than happy to say that this is a comment on the thread more generally.


...... and one with which I would agree.

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mjr
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby mjr » 25 Dec 2018, 5:51pm

Airsporter1st wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote: ... I'm not sure who suggested that, but it was not I.


Nor was it my intention to suggest it was you. If it's not completely clear, I'm more than happy to say that this is a comment on the thread more generally.


...... and one with which I would agree.

Why? No one seems to be suggesting that as a reason why his desire not to disrobe outdoors is reasonable. It would be as offensive to expect a pedestrian to remove clothes.
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Airsporter1st
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Airsporter1st » 26 Dec 2018, 7:19am

mjr wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Nor was it my intention to suggest it was you. If it's not completely clear, I'm more than happy to say that this is a comment on the thread more generally.


...... and one with which I would agree.

Why? No one seems to be suggesting that as a reason why his desire not to disrobe outdoors is reasonable. It would be as offensive to expect a pedestrian to remove clothes.


This exchange was solely about Thirdcrank's comment, bolded upthread, that there was a presumption of innocence purely because the masked guy was a cyclist.

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Cunobelin
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Cunobelin » 26 Dec 2018, 10:52am

mjr wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Nor was it my intention to suggest it was you. If it's not completely clear, I'm more than happy to say that this is a comment on the thread more generally.


...... and one with which I would agree.

Why? No one seems to be suggesting that as a reason why his desire not to disrobe outdoors is reasonable. It would be as offensive to expect a pedestrian to remove clothes.


Only if you want to blur the facts no-one asked him to disrobe or remove clothes, that is an absurd claim!..... In reality it would be equivalent to asking a pedestrian to remove a face covering.

That is in itself so offensive that it would never happen?

Pedestrians accept it all the time, there is no problem or issue

Image

Image



A massive majority of shops refuse to serve if someone is wearing hoody, cap, helmet. face mask, bandana etc

If it is really that offensive, why is this common and abhorrent abuse accepted?

Personally I have always found it to be considerate and helpful to remove headgear and mask when talking to someone, but others may not have such standards

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mjr
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby mjr » 26 Dec 2018, 12:30pm

Cunobelin wrote:
mjr wrote:Why? No one seems to be suggesting that as a reason why his desire not to disrobe outdoors is reasonable. It would be as offensive to expect a pedestrian to remove clothes.


Only if you want to blur the facts no-one asked him to disrobe or remove clothes, that is an absurd claim!..... In reality it would be equivalent to asking a pedestrian to remove a face covering.

Which would be offensive in that context. Face coverings are clothing too.

A massive majority of shops refuse to serve if someone is wearing hoody, cap, helmet. face mask, bandana etc

If it is really that offensive, why is this common and abhorrent abuse accepted?

In those examples, it's as you go indoors, where the main reason for the helmet or hood is no longer present. Totally different context.

Secondly, I've never been refused service on the few times I've gone in with a mask, balaclava or hood on, so I doubt it's a "massive majority". Neither of the examples mentions face masks and one is from Tesco who are massive morons about clothes anyway, including cycling ones at some times. Random example https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/t ... de-1962593

Personally I have always found it to be considerate and helpful to remove headgear and mask when talking to someone, but others may not have such standards

I find it helpful and usually do too, but it's my choice as it should be, not a dictat of another person.
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Cunobelin
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Re: He wasn't in a Wange Wover

Postby Cunobelin » 26 Dec 2018, 1:11pm

mjr wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
mjr wrote:Why? No one seems to be suggesting that as a reason why his desire not to disrobe outdoors is reasonable. It would be as offensive to expect a pedestrian to remove clothes.


Only if you want to blur the facts no-one asked him to disrobe or remove clothes, that is an absurd claim!..... In reality it would be equivalent to asking a pedestrian to remove a face covering.

Which would be offensive in that context. Face coverings are clothing too.

A massive majority of shops refuse to serve if someone is wearing hoody, cap, helmet. face mask, bandana etc

If it is really that offensive, why is this common and abhorrent abuse accepted?

In those examples, it's as you go indoors, where the main reason for the helmet or hood is no longer present. Totally different context.

Secondly, I've never been refused service on the few times I've gone in with a mask, balaclava or hood on, so I doubt it's a "massive majority". Neither of the examples mentions face masks and one is from Tesco who are massive morons about clothes anyway, including cycling ones at some times. Random example https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/t ... de-1962593

Personally I have always found it to be considerate and helpful to remove headgear and mask when talking to someone, but others may not have such standards

I find it helpful and usually do too, but it's my choice as it should be, not a dictat of another person.


I can only apologise that the samples were insufficiently exact, I must confess that I also did not include hats, caps, balaclavas etc.....

I also find the faux outrage over Tesco (and suggestion that it is unique) amusing this is standard practice in many areas, I know most restaurants, Cafes and Pubs in Portsmouth, Southsea, Gosport and area that apply the same dress standards, which I suppose makes most Landlords and owners "massive morons" as well