Frightening horses

[Flinders]

.......
I think the trick is to make sure the horse hears you before it sees you - that way it identifies you as human and not anything else. I left it too late to shout out behind a horse a while ago and it spooked. The rider was on a long rein and it took her a while to get the horse back under control. I asked her what I could have done different but she said there was nothing - just one of these things - although in future I'll make myself heard sooner.

......................

Not a great idea to have your reins long on a road when riding, though, if that's what you mean. A horse is usually much more likely to spook if it is trolling along half-asleep than if it is working on the bit, and if your reins are too long it's difficult to get control back in a crisis. (If you mean the horse was being long reined from the ground, that's a different matter of course.)

[[XAP]Bob]

As a 'bent rider I have a different tack (pardon the pun) with horses.

If they're going in the other direction - I stop and stand up, talking to the horse (often more than the rider) until they have passed.

If they are overtaking me, then that's primarily their job.

If I am overtaking them then I do so with extreme caution - always with communication with the rider. I usually hold back for a while, because often the horse rider's path is not the same as mine, and there is no need to overtake - sometimes takes 30 seconds or more

[661-Pete]

Well this is a bump-and-a-half, no mistake! I must have been on this forum under an earlier incarnation when I started this thread, nearly twelve years ago. Needless to say, I can't remember the incident that prompted me to post back then. But I've not had any serious problem with horses since then, as far as I can recall.

If "BevGreen" is indeed minded to return to this forum (which I seriously doubt), she would do well to read the posts which others have made on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum, rather than merely rattling off her piece of anti-cyclist rhetoric and then flouncing off (or should that be "cantering"?). In my experience the vast majority of cyclists and horse riders get on well together, and do their utmost to ensure that the animals are put at ease. Needless to say, every collection of individuals has the occasional rogue. Cyclists are no exception. Nor are motorists. Nor are football fans. Nor are equestrians....

[pwa]

Well this is a bump-and-a-half, no mistake! I must have been on this forum under an earlier incarnation when I started this thread, nearly twelve years ago. Needless to say, I can't remember the incident that prompted me to post back then. But I've not had any serious problem with horses since then, as far as I can recall.

If "BevGreen" is indeed minded to return to this forum (which I seriously doubt), she would do well to read the posts which others have made on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum, rather than merely rattling off her piece of anti-cyclist rhetoric and then flouncing off (or should that be "cantering"?). In my experience the vast majority of cyclists and horse riders get on well together, and do their utmost to ensure that the animals are put at ease. Needless to say, every collection of individuals has the occasional rogue. Cyclists are no exception. Nor are motorists. Nor are football fans. Nor are equestrians....

You should re-read what Bev actually said. She wasn't having an anti-cycling rant and made a point of thanking the cyclists who show some consideration. Her concern was about one or two individuals who are reckless. You yourself seem to recognise that people like that exist. I suspect you and Bev probably have a very similar outlook. You both want to co-exist peacefully with other road users, showing mutual respect.

[661-Pete]

You should re-read what Bev actually said.

I did. In particular I noted that she said:

For those cyclists that are considerate, I really appreciate your kindness in letting me know of your presence when approaching from behind (it is hard to keep looking over your shoulder every few second just in case a cyclist is approaching). And to those that take heed at my requests to slow down and sometimes to stop (although I try not to ask them to do this), thank you, again it is very much appreciated.

But prior to that, she comes out with some stuff which looks rather hostile to cyclists. And, I'm afraid, this paragraph does come across a bit like the classic cop-out that we so often get ("some of my best friends are....." etc. etc.). If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Pity she seems unlikely to come back to say more about it. I'm not a great fan of people who come to a forum to make one single post and that's it. Once again, if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

[kylecycler]

Not a great idea to have your reins long on a road when riding, though, if that's what you mean. A horse is usually much more likely to spook if it is trolling along half-asleep than if it is working on the bit, and if your reins are too long it's difficult to get control back in a crisis. (If you mean the horse was being long reined from the ground, that's a different matter of course.)

No, the horse rider was actually chastising herself for being on a long rein. The road is single track, very quiet, and I'd been descending quite slowly behind her so there would have been no noise from the drivetrain. She just got caught off guard.

I 'know' the horse rider, or at least I see her quite often and had encountered her before on a different (also young) horse; I was approaching from the front that time but the horse got a bit frisky so I jumped off and stood by the bike on the grass verge (it was the same road), but even then the horse took a while to settle down. In that case I might have been better just riding very slowly past but it's hard to know what to do.

Another time, with a different rider and a different horse, I went to get off but the rider shouted "It's ok - on you come," so I started pedalling again and the horse reared up and nearly threw its rider off the back. She was still shouting - at the horse, not me - as I disappeared around the next bend.

The bit I left out about the first account was that I actually pinged the bell, very quietly, from a long way off, thinking it might startle the horse less than my voice (WRONG!) - too far away for the rider to hear me but not the horse, evidently, either that or it saw me before the rider did. Either way it wasn't too clever, although I meant well. I fessed up to the rider and apologized but she didn't think it was that - she said it just doesn't take much to set that particular horse off; it's just young and has to learn.

That's not to suggest that there's nothing we can do - definitely not making excuses for irresponsible cyclists - but we just have to do our best.

[Graham]

I approved Bev's recent posting for a number of reasons :-

• An important topic worth revisiting.
• The possibility of spreading the word to newbies ( who may not yet be aware of appropriate ways to behave when approaching horses in the road ).
• Bev's post was relatively diplomatic and the overall message was worth posting.
• As a celebration of Anthony's efforts to load up the previous forum topics here. Back in 2007, I had decided not to bother loading them here.

PS. Around these parts there is a huge increase in the number of cyclists on the country lanes. A small number of whom display the selfish behaviour associated with car culture. Passing horses seems to be a bit of a learning experience for them. Hopefully, eventually, they learn that horseriders are fellow vulnerable road-users.

[Bensons]

As someone who has ridden horses on the roads for 40 years I agree entirely with Bev's post and thought it was fairly well written. My own horse took years to get over her bike related incident, but as an owner and rider you have to persevere, training them in a controlled area to hone their response to you and trusting that you will be able to reproduce what you need to in a difficult situation.

The attitude of many cyclists on the roads has changed a great deal in those years. Even on our bikes we find that more often than not a surly nod, if anything is given by a speedy passing cyclist. Not even a smile, let alone a cheery hello, as would have been normal when I was younger.

A bit of a sweeping generalisation but these cyclists with their matching lycra and all the electronics you can buy tend to be focused on speed at the expense of everything else, including common courtesy to more vulnerable road users.

As for riding home on a long rein, unfortunately most of us have to do the first and last part of a ride on the public highway to get to a bridle path or green lane. After a decent ride a long rein helps the horse to wind down/stretch/cool off and it is something most of us would do on a very quiet, familiar road where we would normally have enough time to gather up our reins before anything appeared.

It isn't just cyclists though, as someone said upthread, ignorance is not owned by one group of road users, and includes horse riders too, who are not exempt. A smile and a thank you costs nothing.

[BakfietsUK]

Sweeping generalisations are usually wrong on an individual level. If Bensons wants to go down that road I can do the same about any group and it will get us nowhere. Also come back Bev and see how much the individuals' here really care, don't just rant and run, have a discussion, explore the issues and please listen to others' views. It's not fair to drop a bomb in a forum like this and not acknowledge the feedback. So please do not forget the right of reply and the responsibility that goes with posting on a forum.

Bensons, it's interesting that you don't mention cars specifically when you describe the quiet areas as if maybe cycles are the main anxiety for your horse. I wonder how you thought about that?

What happens I wonder when someone passing is injured by a horse that has been spooked by something and I wonder who, then would be responsible. In this context would it be the cyclist who considerately approaches a horse which rears up suddenly, who is responsible. Is it the horse riders responsibility for taking a historically traumatised horse out knowing it's scared of cyclists, thinking they have the ability to control their mount.

Would it be wrong to screen out horses so traumatised by road traffic that they pose a danger to the public? What about the responsibility and duty of care of the rider, to the horse and the travelling public. I don't profess to know the answers, I'm all ears though.

[Bensons]

My horse wasn't scared of cars, or tractors, or combine harvesters, or bin lorries .... because none of them scared the life out of her as a youngster by doing a wheelie in her face on the road!

On a very quiet road I would hear a car whereas I wouldn't necessarily hear a cyclist so yes, a very fast cyclist approaching silently from behind could present more of a problem than a car.

Maybe you haven't read the whole thread, my horse was desensitised by my husband riding his bike alongside her, after a couple of years she was no longer bothered by bikes. Not sure what you mean by 'I wonder how you thought about that'.

Most horse riders/owners would have public liability insurance, mine is through membership of the British Horse Society in the same way I have liability cover for riding my bike through CTC membership. I guess that the insurance companies would get involved in any injury case and thrash it out between them, no doubt making some cheap law firm much better off in the process.

I know lots of horse riders, none of the horse riders I know would risk their horse, themselves, or anyone else willingly by riding a horse that couldn't cope with being on the road on the road. In fact a friend only rides on a big country estate and never on the road because her horse is too unpredictable.

Courtesy, from all sides, is required - that is all.

[gaz]

... What happens I wonder when someone passing is injured by a horse that has been spooked by something and I wonder who, then would be responsible. In this context would it be the cyclist who considerately approaches a horse which rears up suddenly, who is responsible. Is it the horse riders responsibility for taking a historically traumatised horse out knowing it's scared of cyclists, thinking they have the ability to control their mount. ...

Animals Act 1971 provides some legal protection for a horse rider in respect of any unexpected actions from their horse.

[Flinders]

Not a great idea to have your reins long on a road when riding, though, if that's what you mean. A horse is usually much more likely to spook if it is trolling along half-asleep than if it is working on the bit, and if your reins are too long it's difficult to get control back in a crisis. (If you mean the horse was being long reined from the ground, that's a different matter of course.)

No, the horse rider was actually chastising herself for being on a long rein. The road is single track, very quiet, and I'd been descending quite slowly behind her so there would have been no noise from the drivetrain. She just got caught off guard.

I 'know' the horse rider, or at least I see her quite often and had encountered her before on a different (also young) horse; I was approaching from the front that time but the horse got a bit frisky so I jumped off and stood by the bike on the grass verge (it was the same road), but even then the horse took a while to settle down. In that case I might have been better just riding very slowly past but it's hard to know what to do.

Another time, with a different rider and a different horse, I went to get off but the rider shouted "It's ok - on you come," so I started pedalling again and the horse reared up and nearly threw its rider off the back. She was still shouting - at the horse, not me - as I disappeared around the next bend.

The bit I left out about the first account was that I actually pinged the bell, very quietly, from a long way off, thinking it might startle the horse less than my voice (WRONG!) - too far away for the rider to hear me but not the horse, evidently, either that or it saw me before the rider did. Either way it wasn't too clever, although I meant well. I fessed up to the rider and apologized but she didn't think it was that - she said it just doesn't take much to set that particular horse off; it's just young and has to learn.

That's not to suggest that there's nothing we can do - definitely not making excuses for irresponsible cyclists - but we just have to do our best.

I didn't suggest she didn't know/accept that having the horse on a long rein was a problem, I was trying to explain to people who don't know horses why the long rein was significant- and that a horse that seems half asleep can actually be more likely to spook than one that looks wide awake.

[Flinders]

Sweeping generalisations are usually wrong on an individual level. If Bensons wants to go down that road I can do the same about any group and it will get us nowhere. Also come back Bev and see how much the individuals' here really care, don't just rant and run, have a discussion, explore the issues and please listen to others' views. It's not fair to drop a bomb in a forum like this and not acknowledge the feedback. So please do not forget the right of reply and the responsibility that goes with posting on a forum.

Bensons, it's interesting that you don't mention cars specifically when you describe the quiet areas as if maybe cycles are the main anxiety for your horse. I wonder how you thought about that?

What happens I wonder when someone passing is injured by a horse that has been spooked by something and I wonder who, then would be responsible. In this context would it be the cyclist who considerately approaches a horse which rears up suddenly, who is responsible. Is it the horse riders responsibility for taking a historically traumatised horse out knowing it's scared of cyclists, thinking they have the ability to control their mount.

Would it be wrong to screen out horses so traumatised by road traffic that they pose a danger to the public? What about the responsibility and duty of care of the rider, to the horse and the travelling public. I don't profess to know the answers, I'm all ears though.

1) The OP did not 'rant'.
2) You cannot ever be 100% sure of any horse, just like you can't be sure of any child, or any adult on a mobile phone or with headphones, etc. etc......any of them can make sudden movements into your path.
3) How do you de-traumatise a horse other than by quietly introducing it to traffic? This will usually be done on quiet roads- ie, lanes where there is little traffic and slow speeds. That's also the sort of road that cyclists tend to choose.
4) if your child, as a cyclist, was scared of traffic, would you just keep them off the road, or would you try to get them used to it gradually?

[kylecycler]

I didn't suggest she didn't know/accept that having the horse on a long rein was a problem, I was trying to explain to people who don't know horses why the long rein was significant- and that a horse that seems half asleep can actually be more likely to spook than one that looks wide awake.

Thanks for the explanation, I hadn't understood the significance.

I used to be as daft about horses as I am now about bicycles but the furthest I ever got riding one was being led around an estate on 'riding lessons' - so called - every Saturday morning for a while when I was about ten - me and the horse were on a long rein!

After that I kind of lost interest, but I do believe horses are complex and very different characters - "It's a horse" wouldn't even begin to define them!

I've got a copy of Monty Roberts' autobiography 'The Man Who Listens to Horses'. It's quite an education, and not just about horses.

[Bensons]

From the horse's mouth, as it were, a pdf leaflet.

http://www.bhs.org.uk/safety-and-accide ... nts/cycles

Perhaps something could be included in Cycle magazine to raise awareness of how to deal with passing horses. I am sure that the BHS would be keen to have some input.

I just think that many people know so little about horses that they don't understand how they can affect them, and why would they unless they have chosen to learn about them.

Riding on a long rein being frowned upon on here sort of confirms it. Many riders train their horses to turn, stop, even change pace using their seat and legs, some horses can be just as responsive to their rider on a long rein. It is a poor rider that rides with their hands. In the right circumstances with the right horse and rider combination a long rein on a road is perfectly acceptable. "on the bit" is something that is achieved by much training and correct muscle development and not heavy hands.