Cycling UK Forum

Many things we encounter in life are generally OK and the problems are limited, with even fewer being really bad but that doesn't mean we should accept the bad things. Most dog walkers have their animals on a lead and clean up after them, but that doesn't somehow make those who don't ok. Nor should we be expected to study amateur dog psychology to mitigate things.

thirdcrank wrote:Many things we encounter in life are generally OK and the problems are limited, with even fewer being really bad but that doesn't mean we should accept the bad things. Most dog walkers have their animals on a lead and clean up after them, but that doesn't somehow make those who don't ok. Nor should we be expected to study amateur dog psychology to mitigate things.

What else do you not expect to study the psychology of? For example, there are a thousand kinds of human psychology. Do you eschew a study of any and all of them?

I suppose that things have been constructed as a protective cloak for those lucky enough to live in a civilisation of some sort. The cloak obviates the need for doing "psychology" if one is an ordinary person. However, civilisation has holes in it, here and there. Moreover, the holes are getting bigger and there are now also rips. The ability to empathise (aka "doing psychology") seems somewhat more appropriate in this day and age.

Anyway, I do enjoy coming here to have a go at doing psychology with the other posters. After all, that's what a discussion forum is. Well, it is for some. Others just like to do the soapbox-bellow, me included at times.

Cugel

I'm happy to study all sorts of things, but I don't think that my personal safety should be conditional on doing so.

thirdcrank wrote:I'm happy to study all sorts of things, but I don't think that my personal safety should be conditional on doing so.

Wot! How do you survive as a cyclist then? Or when choosing what to eat? Or crossing the road? Must we guide your every move so you don't get into trouble of the potentially dangerous or even lethal kind!?

I did guide the moves with the bairns until they were about 6 years old, mind, but then insisted that they try to assess risks for themselves, since even in civilization there are myriad dangers.

Anyroadup, there are other motives for empathising with the dog. Not least is a broader understanding of how nature works in diverse ways, many of which are not familiar to entitled humans clutching their safety blanket and demanding that the bad things be removed by a bad-thing remover.

Cugel

What I'm talking about is people attempting to transfer their own duty of care - in this case keeping proper control of their dogs - onto others.

thirdcrank wrote:What I'm talking about is people attempting to transfer their own duty of care - in this case keeping proper control of their dogs - onto others.

Makes sense to me!

That's not to say that we don't benefit from understanding the minds of hazardous critters - but we have the right to do certain things unmolested. The hazards could be drunk drivers, or dogs or muggers - the odd one out in that list is the dogs, but their owners need to carry responsbility.

[I get on with dogs generally, would even call myself a dog-lover - but some owners are idiots, and create a public danger on occasion ]

thirdcrank wrote:What I'm talking about is people attempting to transfer their own duty of care - in this case keeping proper control of their dogs - onto others.

People should not be allowing their dogs to behave badly and cause you inconvenience or worse. But at the same time, when you meet a dog that isn't being managed properly you will find it easier to deal with if you are confident at handling dogs. You are better equipped to deal with the problems created by others. That does not mean you are taking on the role of the person responsible for ensuring all goes well. That remains with the dog owner.

Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

Cyril Haearn wrote:Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

An experienced police-man might say the same about all sorts of horrendous behaviour. I have no wish to share his/her knowledge and/or experience.

mattheus wrote:

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

An experienced police-man might say the same about all sorts of horrendous behaviour. I have no wish to share his/her knowledge and/or experience.

Then you go out naked and unprepared.

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

Why should I have to? The dog owners are the people choosing to impose their dirty, noisy, potentially dangerous animals on members of the public. If I wandered around a park carrying a shotgun, should I expect people to use amateur psychology to 'predict' that I'm not going to go postal with it ?

Eton Rifle wrote:

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:Dogs are half-wild animals and very unpredictable

Read about one recently that killed both its keepers

They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

Why should I have to? The dog owners are the people choosing to impose their dirty, noisy, potentially dangerous animals on members of the public. If I wandered around a park carrying a shotgun, should I expect people to use amateur psychology to 'predict' that I'm not going to go postal with it ?

As I said, you shouldn't have to. But you may find it useful if you can. If you don't want to deal with other people's dogs, don't. Rely on them to do it for you.

pwa wrote:

Eton Rifle wrote:

pwa wrote:They aren't as unpredictable if you are good at predicting them. I don't think I'm ever surprised by a dog.

Why should I have to? The dog owners are the people choosing to impose their dirty, noisy, potentially dangerous animals on members of the public. If I wandered around a park carrying a shotgun, should I expect people to use amateur psychology to 'predict' that I'm not going to go postal with it ?

As I said, you shouldn't have to. But you may find it useful if you can.
<snip>

An excellent summary.

mattheus wrote:

thirdcrank wrote:What I'm talking about is people attempting to transfer their own duty of care - in this case keeping proper control of their dogs - onto others.

Makes sense to me!

That's not to say that we don't benefit from understanding the minds of hazardous critters - but we have the right to do certain things unmolested. The hazards could be drunk drivers, or dogs or muggers - the odd one out in that list is the dogs, but their owners need to carry responsbility.

[I get on with dogs generally, would even call myself a dog-lover - but some owners are idiots, and create a public danger on occasion ]

Yes indeed.

But rights require that duties are performed by others so that we may enjoy them - as in dog walkers training & controlling their beast or drivers of cars not behaving like nasty spoilt brats. Alas, duty is now an outmoded concept and the world is full of humans who will smirk in the face of your rights.

Therefore it becomes a mere matter of preservation and survival to understand the various agents that will not only deny your various rights but seek to expunge them in one way or another. You can cry for a rozzer and a beak if you like but these agents who used to enforce citizen-duties upon the recalcitrant are now very scarce.

Anyroadup, should you find yourself mauled by a dog or run over by a motoring Toad, it will do you little good to cry foul from your hospital bed.

Cugel the pragmatic.