Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
jatindersangha
Posts: 106
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 11:19am

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby jatindersangha » 2 Jan 2019, 11:09am

I'll confess to owning a large german shepherd dog - she's interested in cyclists but only insofar as wanting a sniff of the bikes. You'd think that she'd just ignore them after seeing me on my bike regularly - but she may see things differently as I don't go cycling with the dog.

When out walking and we see a cyclist, then we generally bring the dog under close control (command or lead) and if necessary distract her so that she doesn't get in the cyclists way - I wouldn't want her to be the cause of a fall and I certainly wouldn't want her to be under a falling cyclist/bike!

I tend to just ignore dogs which bark, snap or lunge at my when cycling - probably because I'm accustomed to dogs, however, I will be wary around the larger dogs if they behave like that.

The best defence IMO is to ignore them (dogs cannot stand being ignored and will show no interest in you generally), after that, shouting at them like you would to a child "No, Stop, Aha" etc. Most dogs don't actually want to attack you - they just want a reaction, so standing your ground and frightening them back generally stops them in their tracks.

I wouldn't recommend attacking the dog - but if required, a good kick to a small dog is generally more than enough. With larger dogs, IF you can grab them, you can rest your knee on their neck until the owner rescues them.

In any case, a dog that goes for a cyclist hasn't been socialized enough - so if you're comfortable, stop and chat with the owner (with dog) and let the dog have a good sniff etc - and with time, the dog will just ignore cyclists.

I'll also confess to having a flexi-lead, but we only use it when she's in season and can't be let off the lead.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28013
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2019, 11:43am

jatindersangha wrote:... The best defence IMO is to ignore them (dogs cannot stand being ignored and will show no interest in you generally), ...


Sorry about this, but I cannot help thinking that that might have been the inspiration for a Helms dog-chasing-a-cyclist cartoon.

Anyway, your arrival has made me think of camera evidence, although as usual, the big problem may be getting anybody interested.

If a case did get as far as any sort of review of the evidence, then I think decent footage would be invaluable. The first and perhaps most obvious thing is the conduct of the dog: one person's dangerously out-of-control is another's playful frolicking. Beyond that, identification of the mutt can be problematic so clear footage may help that. Another problem area can be the linking of the dog to its owner so getting both together could be invaluable and comments including expressions like "my dog" even better still, especially if they imply a refusal to accept a responsibility to keep the animal under control. Frothing at the mouth suggests rabies in a dog or anti-social tendencies in a human being.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 12059
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby mjr » 2 Jan 2019, 11:56am

brynpoeth wrote:I think there should be restrictions on big dogs, a small dog under 10 kg can fulfil the partner function but is not so dangerous if it goes crazy, anyone agree?

The dog that killed two people was a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, all the neighbours were afraid of the infamous beast, something should have been done BEFORE :(

Indeed. The problem is that many (most?) Staffies are lovely, patient, faithful, trainable animals (I know owners of them and their dogs) but they are very solidly-built and powerful so if not trained and handled carefully, they could easily be very dangerous, decide they're head of the pack and use deadly force to prove it. They are one of a few types of dog that should almost never be left unattended and untethered in the open IMO - the risks are just too great. So, we need dog wardens to check up when such dogs reported as out of control and is there much chance of that while government is cutting everything to fund a certain policy? :-(
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

reohn2
Posts: 32992
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jan 2019, 11:49pm

By contrast to my previous post today I was climbing a steepish leafy track with a dog walker coming the opposite way.
I stopped to allow him and his two dogs(one a Border Collie and the other an English bull terrier) to pass.He asked about my bike and we got chatting,whilst the collie kept placing a 6inch twig on my foot(which was still clipped in the pedal and at the two o'clock position ready to start off again),whilst the Terrier sort attention wagging it's tail and sniffing a me on the other side.Their owner reassured me they were good dogs and wouldn't bite but it was obvious by their friendliness.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

ANTONISH
Posts: 1514
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby ANTONISH » 3 Jan 2019, 8:38am

Cugel wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:I've been following this thread with interest.
I'm nervous of loose dogs - when I was a child I was in a local park and an Alsation jumped up at me.....[snip]
I'm surprised there aren't more serious injuries due to these pests and their moronic owners.
I do not dislike dogs - and I can socialise with them -but many owners see them as their obedient or playful children instead of the pack animals they are.




Of course, humans are pack animals and, in very large packs (or even small ones) very dangerous indeed. Packs of children are particularly dangerous if left to run wild as they lack the inhibitions and understanding of adults. My own theory is that, until a certain age and maturity, they're best treated like dogs. Dogs, that is, that are well trained, looked after and nurtured rather than those that are treated merely as some sort of casual possession that can be ignored if you're not in the mood for them.



Cugel


That may well be but I am yet to be pursued by a snarling infant intent on taking a lump out of my leg.

Airsporter1st
Posts: 561
Joined: 8 Oct 2016, 3:14pm

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Airsporter1st » 3 Jan 2019, 9:32am

ANTONISH wrote:
Cugel wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:I've been following this thread with interest.
I'm nervous of loose dogs - when I was a child I was in a local park and an Alsation jumped up at me.....[snip]
I'm surprised there aren't more serious injuries due to these pests and their moronic owners.
I do not dislike dogs - and I can socialise with them -but many owners see them as their obedient or playful children instead of the pack animals they are.




Of course, humans are pack animals and, in very large packs (or even small ones) very dangerous indeed. Packs of children are particularly dangerous if left to run wild as they lack the inhibitions and understanding of adults. My own theory is that, until a certain age and maturity, they're best treated like dogs. Dogs, that is, that are well trained, looked after and nurtured rather than those that are treated merely as some sort of casual possession that can be ignored if you're not in the mood for them.



Cugel


That may well be but I am yet to be pursued by a snarling infant intent on taking a lump out of my leg.


Children can pose dangers other than nipping at your ankles.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 1264
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Cugel » 3 Jan 2019, 10:11am

Airsporter1st wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:
Cugel wrote:




Cugel


That may well be but I am yet to be pursued by a snarling infant intent on taking a lump out of my leg.


Children can pose dangers other than nipping at your ankles.


Mr A would be astonished by the feral children of various locales, especially those of the more degraded cities and certain estates wherein "the authorities" dump all their problem families. Those children really do run in packs. They are quite vicious in various physical fashions that are far worse than a bit of ankle nipping.

I was once part of a chain gang that passed down the side of such an area. It was not unusual to have the feral children casting rocks from their parapets or throwing spears made from ripped-up fencing at our spokes. They achieved more than one hit, which did some bluddy damage from time to time albeit nothing very serious (just luck and good bike handling, there).

When I was a lad in Tyneside, serious injuries inflicted by children were commonplace. By "serious" I mean requiring hospitalisation and, in one infamous case, two deaths. (Two young teenagers pushed two German tourists off a cliff edge).

Humans are nasty, if left untrained in the ways of civilisation. From the late 1940s to about a decade ago, things were improving slowly, as "child poverty" (as the euphemism goes) was reduced ever so slowly. But lately we are seeing an increase in that poverty and the associated evil behaviours. Gangs of young children armed to the teeth with knives have seen the headlines. They're the tip of an iceberg.

Cugel

Ontherivet77
Posts: 208
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Ontherivet77 » 3 Jan 2019, 10:17am

Until recently I was the owner of a lovely Labrador, who liked nothing better than having mooch down the local towpaths. One thing dog ownership teaches is you is that other dog owners are not always honest about the nature of their own beloved beasts, as the amount of bites my dog received from supposedly friendly animals testified to.
However, the modern dog is not a pack animal ( as was stated previously) as they are no longer wolves and should not be confused as such, as Cugel stated they are more like infantilised children.
One thing coming from this thread is that cyclists are angry on the road because of motorists and off road seem to be angry at dogs and dog owners. I thought cycling was good for the mental well being, so how a about a bit more of the live and let live ethos when out on our travels.

As for dealing with aggressive dogs, be confident, show no fear and deliver a swift kick if absolutely necessary.

MikeF
Posts: 3673
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby MikeF » 3 Jan 2019, 9:13pm

Ontherivet77 wrote:As for dealing with aggressive dogs, be confident, show no fear and deliver a swift kick if absolutely necessary.
That's not always easy eg if you travelling uphill. Generally I don't have a problem with dogs.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

thirdcrank
Posts: 28013
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Jan 2019, 9:50pm

One thing coming from this thread is that cyclists are angry on the road because of motorists and off road seem to be angry at dogs and dog owners. I thought cycling was good for the mental well being, so how a about a bit more of the live and let live ethos when out on our travels.


Speaking for myself, I'm not angry with drivers, dogs or their owners in general: only those who lack consideration for others.

peetee
Posts: 1091
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby peetee » 4 Jan 2019, 8:49am

The behaviour of dog is for the most part a reflection of the attitude of the owner. People's standards and tolerances vary hugely. I have seen one dog wee on someone's leg and the owner completely ignore the act. Many dogs are allowed to lick people's hands, sniff around picknickers food or jump up at strangers. All unacceptable in my book but, seemingly ok for thousands of owners. There are dogs that are kept as, primarily; jewelry, companions for people, companions for other dogs, guards, helpers and so on. Each role requires different behaviours and controls and the dedication of an individual or persons familiar to the dog. Breed has very little to do with behaviour and dogs have individual character traits as broad as humans. They can be startled and behave aggressively through fear just as we can. I have done it myself, who hasn't? That's where training takes a back seat. It's instinctive in every animal and very hard to eliminate. Police horses are trained extremely vigorously but it's next to impossible to stop them rearing up occasionally.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

Ontherivet77
Posts: 208
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Ontherivet77 » 4 Jan 2019, 9:32am

MikeF wrote:
Ontherivet77 wrote:As for dealing with aggressive dogs, be confident, show no fear and deliver a swift kick if absolutely necessary.
That's not always easy eg if you travelling uphill. Generally I don't have a problem with dogs.


I would also look to get off the bike in the first instance if out cycling, but I was speaking in more general terms.

Ontherivet77
Posts: 208
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Ontherivet77 » 4 Jan 2019, 9:34am

thirdcrank wrote:
One thing coming from this thread is that cyclists are angry on the road because of motorists and off road seem to be angry at dogs and dog owners. I thought cycling was good for the mental well being, so how a about a bit more of the live and let live ethos when out on our travels.


Speaking for myself, I'm not angry with drivers, dogs or their owners in general: only those who lack consideration for others.


One comment on here referred to dogs as pests, which struck me as a bit extreme to say the least.

brynpoeth
Posts: 9030
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Jan 2019, 9:36am

Both are true :wink:
Pets and pests

Alternative facts welcome
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

Ontherivet77
Posts: 208
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Worst dog incidents, and tips for dealing with them

Postby Ontherivet77 » 4 Jan 2019, 9:37am

peetee wrote:The behaviour of dog is for the most part a reflection of the attitude of the owner. People's standards and tolerances vary hugely. I have seen one dog wee on someone's leg and the owner completely ignore the act. Many dogs are allowed to lick people's hands, sniff around picknickers food or jump up at strangers. All unacceptable in my book but, seemingly ok for thousands of owners. There are dogs that are kept as, primarily; jewelry, companions for people, companions for other dogs, guards, helpers and so on. Each role requires different behaviours and controls and the dedication of an individual or persons familiar to the dog. Breed has very little to do with behaviour and dogs have individual character traits as broad as humans. They can be startled and behave aggressively through fear just as we can. I have done it myself, who hasn't? That's where training takes a back seat. It's instinctive in every animal and very hard to eliminate. Police horses are trained extremely vigorously but it's next to impossible to stop them rearing up occasionally.


A dog pissed on my leg once the owner was very apologetic and offered to wash my jeans, but I can confirm it happens, I assume it is a territorial thing. I just laughed it off at the time.