Potholes again

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
peetee
Posts: 1363
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm

Re: Potholes again

Postby peetee » 29 Dec 2018, 12:30am

fastpedaller wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Do you think roads are built well enough to cope with the traffic that's using them?
IMO the roads are being built and repaired worse than ever when you consider the amount of traffic on UK roads in the 21st century.

Out in our rural areas there are some potholes that exist for several months, and (in some cases) years. I've found a useful tool is google street view, where an image from quite some time ago can be used as evidence of long-overdue repair! I had a phone conversation with a highway manager a few years ago, and he stated that the local tractors and other farm vehicles sometimes cause damage - he thought I was being unreasonable to expect the roads to be strong enough (especially as there's farms all around like) :roll:
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

peetee
Posts: 1363
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm

Re: Potholes again

Postby peetee » 29 Dec 2018, 12:42am

For the most part agricultural vehicles cause far less damage per mile than many other vehicles by virtue of the fact that the tyres they run on are high volume and broad footprint to facilitate traction off-road. This vastly cuts down on wear and vibration induced fracturing of the road surface. One problem they are accused of is gouges caused by tow hitches due to differences in the level between field/yard access points and the road surface but this is often as a result of 'road rise' where councils add a new surface or dressing without stripping off the old. A problem for us cyclists too when drain covers are left at the height of the old surface. :evil:
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

slowster
Posts: 938
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Potholes again

Postby slowster » 29 Dec 2018, 12:45am

peetee wrote:
slowster wrote:
peetee wrote:Am I the only person that thinks that including a faux-comedy photo of a doll in a puddle is inappropriate and insensitive?

It's not in good taste, but in the BBC's defence what they've done is simply reuse a previous video article on the problem of potholes, which happens to include the doll image (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-46012348/potholes-why-do-we-have-so-many-of-them). The doll's use in that video stemmed from a campaigner using them draw attention to potholes in his area (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-43962444).


I understand it's a snippet from that video but they could have used a more neutral image for the link.

I don't know how easy or difficult that would be (it's the same still image that the video had originally) - If the still image is part of the video, then presumably the original video (or a copy) would have to be edited to change the still image. In an ideal world the jounalist who wrote the article and included the video (or what I suspect might only be a link to the original video) would have the time and resources needed to do that, but even though the BBC's website journalists are not working under the same commercial pressures as those who work for the Daily Mail, Sky etc., I suspect they do not have the time.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11006
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Potholes again

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Dec 2018, 5:54am

Speeding crime is the problem
Reducing speed reduces damage
Truck terrorists are the worst
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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reohn2
Posts: 35882
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Potholes again

Postby reohn2 » 29 Dec 2018, 11:15am

brynpoeth wrote:Speeding crime is the problem
Reducing speed reduces damage
Truck terrorists are the worst

It isn't the speed,it's the weight of traffic on an insufficcient surface for that weight of traffic followed by poor repairs to that surface which leads to repairs breaking up in short order.
I've seen repairs done locally break up revealing the original potholes in six weeks or less,one in particular was repaired four times in about 9 months before a decent job was done.
No one can tell that the job done properly in the first instance wouldn't have been cheap and better.
There's another resurfacing job been done on a tight corner near us and a pothole left at the very end of the resurfacing where 0.5m of extra resurfacing would've repaired it :?
What I see happening is false economy on a grand scale.
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brynpoeth
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Potholes again

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Dec 2018, 11:22am

It is speed, you cannae change the laws of physics, a 40-tonne vehicle does xxx times more damage than a 1-tonne car, this increases exponentially with increasing speed
Somewhere on these fora a math genius explained it

Simple solution: reduce maximum speed limits -before- the damage is done. Not after :?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

reohn2
Posts: 35882
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Potholes again

Postby reohn2 » 29 Dec 2018, 12:08pm

brynpoeth wrote:It is speed, you cannae change the laws of physics, a 40-tonne vehicle does xxx times more damage than a 1-tonne car, this increases exponentially with increasing speed
Somewhere on these fora a math genius explained it

Simple solution: reduce maximum speed limits -before- the damage is done. Not after :?

And how much faster can a truck travel on most roads?
40tonne trucks have a natural maximum speed on most roads,dictated by those same physical laws.
The damage done by trucks is mostly on bends and at junctions,why isn't there a strengthening of the road surface at these points?

The resurfacing carried out on the tight corner I mentioned in my previous post was flooded after a days rain last week,due to insufficient drainage,something that should have been rectified when the resurfacing was carried out but wasn't,why? :? .
So with a bit of rain followed by a sharp frost,and that cycle continued over winter will seriously degrade the surface.
Not to mention the highly probable safety risk,which can lead to further damage to surounding infrastructure,vehicles,not mention human beings.
Such RTC's will cost the emergency services and NHS more than needs be,not to mention the immeasurable possible loss of life as in the OP's link.

There's an holistic approach to safety that's not even being considered by government at both local,due to imposed cutbacks,and at national governmental level who impose their shortsighted austerity plans.
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I cycle therefore I am.

tim-b
Posts: 1033
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Potholes again

Postby tim-b » 30 Dec 2018, 7:23am

Hi
For the most part agricultural vehicles cause far less damage per mile...

The problem is that many farm machines are several times larger than they were even a decade ago and they won't fit on many country lanes. They put a wheel on the edge of the road and it crumbles into the verge

Potholes are a structural problem within the road caused by water. The water gets into the sub-base where temperature changes (and worse, freezing) cause a gradual deterioration. The cost of repairs to cracks and dips early in the deterioration process are way cheaper (20%?) than lots of pointless temporary pothole patches, compensation with associated office staff costs, all followed by a massive repair. Early repairs will be needed more frequently (because they're early :) ) but the overall cost should be no greater, without potholes ever forming, and that will save lives and unnecessary damage

Roads don't last forever and all surfaces will need to be replaced eventually, but LAs seem to prefer to wait for total destruction before acting

Design is another area where LAs could improve; we all know about their cycle provision, but are anti-skid surfaces needed?
Modern vehicles (from the Mini to the lorry) are heavier, have braking, electronics and tyres that are massively improved and the anti-skid surface just gets ripped off the road. It looks unsightly, it forms ripples that hold water and it's awful under braking on a bike with high pressure tyres

Regards
tim-b
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MikeF
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Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Potholes again

Postby MikeF » 30 Dec 2018, 8:06pm

brynpoeth wrote:
MikeF wrote:Potholes are mainly caused by motor vehicles. How many potholes are found on a footway? How often are footways resurfaced?

Footways and cycleways are designed for much lighter loads, built cheaply so they do not last and are easily disrupted by roots or when water gets in/under them
But footways do last a very long time compared with carriageways. There are many that remain untouched or repaired for over 40 years.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
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Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Potholes again

Postby MikeF » 30 Dec 2018, 8:15pm

reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
MikeF wrote:Potholes are mainly caused by motor vehicles. How many potholes are found on a footway? How often are footways resurfaced?

Footways and cycleways are designed for much lighter loads, built cheaply so they do not last and are easily disrupted by roots or when water gets in/under them

Do you think roads are built well enough to cope with the traffic that's using them?
IMO the roads are being built and repaired worse than ever when you consider the amount of traffic on UK roads in the 21st century.
A very high proportion of damage is caused by utilities. Nearly all repairs are to a poor standard.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

ThePinkOne
Posts: 215
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm

Re: Potholes again

Postby ThePinkOne » 30 Dec 2018, 8:26pm

When I worked in a council highways dept some 20 years ago, even then each council department was competing against others for a share of the budget.

Highways was always at a disadvantage especially in an election year as books in schools and care for the elderly are always more "cuddly" and open to bring influenced by single issue campaigns than funding for roads, bus subsidies and toilets. Unfortunately, the role of highways, bus subsidies and toilets on access by all people to participate in society tends to prove to be too sophisticated a position for an election campaign :shock:

20 years ago, highway drainage was being cut to save money. By now, neglect has gone on for longer and it's getting noticeable. But change is unlikely in the current system where single issues with emotive potential get the response on the media (mainstream & social).

TPO