WHAT!

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horizon
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Re: WHAT!

Postby horizon » 13 Jan 2019, 7:48pm

thirdcrank wrote:
horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:what makes anyone think he'll not drive without insurance(because his premium will be sky as a result)if he's not banned?


Everything I've suggested so far is based on the presumption that enforcement is possible. Enforcement of firearms licences seems to work reasonably well; I think the same could apply to driving licences.


Firearms licensing by definition regulates legally held firearms and places quite a burden on the people who have them. The influence on people who decide to act outside the law is limited.


You're right - it might not be the best analogy. But I don't think that society is yet even trying to use bans let alone enforcing them.
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andrew_s
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Re: WHAT!

Postby andrew_s » 14 Jan 2019, 12:15am

reohn2 wrote:Suppose I'm banned but wish to keep driving with impunity and own a fairly common car,if I can find a car similar to mine that's legally on the road in another town say 100 miles away.I simply have a pair of reg plates made up like that car and drive around with those plates fitted to my car.ANPR shows it up as legal

I gather that, these days, you can't just have a pair of plates made up without providing ID to be checked against the DVLA ownership of the vehicle.
That leaves you with DIY plates.

Besides which, with the number of ANPR cameras around, and computer records, how long do you think it would be before a car being registered regularly in its home towm, and also in another town 100 miles away, but not on the routes between, rang alarm bells?

thirdcrank
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Re: WHAT!

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jan 2019, 7:51am

There seem to be plenty of firms advertising any design of plates you like, no questions asked, on the internet.

Oldjohnw
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Re: WHAT!

Postby Oldjohnw » 14 Jan 2019, 8:02am

A few years ago I wanted a plate for a towbar bike carrier and Halfords required my car ownership form from DVLA.
John

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Mick F
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Re: WHAT!

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 8:11am

thirdcrank wrote:There seem to be plenty of firms advertising any design of plates you like, no questions asked, on the internet.
Yes. True.

I have a collection of number plates from previous cars left over from the trailer when we swapped cars. Often thought about sticking one on and roaring through a speed camera zone to see what would happen. :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: WHAT!

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jan 2019, 9:50am

I'd be interested to hear from anybody whose experience is more recent than mine about things like whether the ANPR is co-ordinated so that two otherwise apparently legit cars being driven simultaneously arouses interest. Also, how many ANPR alerts are ignored through a lack of anybody to investigate/ follow them up? IIRC somebody (irc?) linked to some data a while ago which weren't encouraging.

The MIB regularly issues media releases about the cost of uninsured drivers to those who are insured and, of course, that only covers those whose antics lead to a loss. We've had projections of the amount of unpaid duty, especially since the paper tax disc was abolished. I fancy that the number of vehicles with dodgy lights gives an idea of how many have no MOT etc.

I know that uninsured motor vehicles are now seized but I suspect we are in tip-of-the-iceberg territory.

reohn2
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Re: WHAT!

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2019, 10:23am

andrew_s wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Suppose I'm banned but wish to keep driving with impunity and own a fairly common car,if I can find a car similar to mine that's legally on the road in another town say 100 miles away.I simply have a pair of reg plates made up like that car and drive around with those plates fitted to my car.ANPR shows it up as legal

I gather that, these days, you can't just have a pair of plates made up without providing ID to be checked against the DVLA ownership of the vehicle.
That leaves you with DIY plates.

Besides which, with the number of ANPR cameras around, and computer records, how long do you think it would be before a car being registered regularly in its home towm, and also in another town 100 miles away, but not on the routes between, rang alarm bells?

Re reg plates,I reckon you can get anything for a few quid over the odds.

I've posted this before:-
There's a chap who lives not far from me who's been driving about on false plates that don't even match the type of car he was driving,despite a couple of people and myself reporting him on numerous occasions it was three years before he was caught.
In that time he'd been driving three cars with different plates,one of which was a beat up Ford Ka with diplomatic plates for the Peoples Rebulic of Congo believe it or not,I was told that by officer who I spoke to one the phone when I reported it the first time
The others were a Smart car which had two different reg plates front and back,and an old Jaguar which had plates on it off a black 3 series BMW!
He was caught when the community Bobby was in the street on another matter and the perp drove up the street in the Jag,he was done for no VED,Insurance,MOT and his driving licence had the wrong address in it.

You can check reg plates against a car's MOT,VED and Insurance on the DVLA website.
If police forces up and down the country are as coordinated and effective as they are in Greater Manchester criminals have no fear of ever being caught :?
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reohn2
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Re: WHAT!

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2019, 10:25am

thirdcrank wrote:I'd be interested to hear from anybody whose experience is more recent than mine about things like whether the ANPR is co-ordinated so that two otherwise apparently legit cars being driven simultaneously arouses interest. Also, how many ANPR alerts are ignored through a lack of anybody to investigate/ follow them up? IIRC somebody (irc?) linked to some data a while ago which weren't encouraging.

The MIB regularly issues media releases about the cost of uninsured drivers to those who are insured and, of course, that only covers those whose antics lead to a loss. We've had projections of the amount of unpaid duty, especially since the paper tax disc was abolished. I fancy that the number of vehicles with dodgy lights gives an idea of how many have no MOT etc.

I know that uninsured motor vehicles are now seized but I suspect we are in tip-of-the-iceberg territory.

+1.
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horizon
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Re: WHAT!

Postby horizon » 14 Jan 2019, 12:28pm

Given the alacrity with which the private car-clamping industry takes action against "offenders", I'm not sure there isn't a case at least for a self-funded state agency that would attend to all these matters.

While I'm hesitant to propose any more rules and regs, I would have thought that something like a tag with a chip-and-pin licence inserted would take out lots of banned drivers. If it works on the Tamar Bridge, passport controls and car parks it should work for driving licence checks. The barrier stays down!
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thirdcrank
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Re: WHAT!

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jan 2019, 1:34pm

s 54 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 banned a lot of wheelclamping leaving enquiries through the DVLA as the main option: not much use if the vehicle's licensing record is out of date or if the vehicle is a ringer of some sort.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/section/54

Incidentally, it's this legislation that governs quite a bit of surveillance.

I think I've suggested before that detecting and dealing with uninsured vehicles might be outsourced to the MIB.

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Mick F
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Re: WHAT!

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 1:59pm

Talking of ANPR, we've parked at Bristol Airport on occasion, and as you enter, you press a button and the machine spits a card for you to keep. On leaving, you go to a booth, insert your card, pay, then it spits it back at you and you push the card in the exit barrier machine and leave.

I wonder if you fitted a bogus numberplate on the front as you enter, and take the card, then remove the bogus plate.
When you are about to leave after coming back from a two week holiday, you "lose" the card and go to the office. Tell them your real reg number - which they have no record of - and that you only arrived an hour ago. It is "obvious" that their system is broken, so they take your word for it and charge you £3 instead of £100.

Could that be done?
Mick F. Cornwall

charliepolecat
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Re: WHAT!

Postby charliepolecat » 14 Jan 2019, 2:47pm

Mick F: Master criminal in training. :P

thirdcrank
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Re: WHAT!

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jan 2019, 2:51pm

Could that be done?


More to the point, could you be done?

They keep changing the law without letting me know :wink: but I'll plump for "Fraud by false representation."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2

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Mick F
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Re: WHAT!

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 3:19pm

:lol: :lol:

What about walking in holding the numberplate, then walking out?
Just to test the theory, that's all.
Mick F. Cornwall

Ben@Forest
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Re: WHAT!

Postby Ben@Forest » 16 Jan 2019, 8:34pm

Mick F wrote:Talking of ANPR, we've parked at Bristol Airport on occasion, and as you enter, you press a button and the machine spits a card for you to keep. On leaving, you go to a booth, insert your card, pay, then it spits it back at you and you push the card in the exit barrier machine and leave.

I wonder if you fitted a bogus numberplate on the front as you enter, and take the card, then remove the bogus plate.
When you are about to leave after coming back from a two week holiday, you "lose" the card and go to the office. Tell them your real reg number - which they have no record of - and that you only arrived an hour ago. It is "obvious" that their system is broken, so they take your word for it and charge you £3 instead of £100.

Could that be done?


It's likely that there will be CCTV inside the park too. It could show your real registration on your car sitting there for the last two weeks. It will almost definitely show that your car did not arrive in the last hour.