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Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 6:25pm
by brynpoeth
De Sisti wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:It is just primitive tribalism - people belong to their own tribe and conform to the social norms of that tribe and reject others.
Any identifiable minority will experience the hate - it is all the same - whether it is hating Blacks or Jews or Muslims or Gays or Mexicans or Catholics or Manchester United fans or Gypsies or Goths ... or cyclists.

3/10 for me 8)

If one is a member of 6/10 minority groups, is one then a member of the majority? :wink:

Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 7:18pm
by Cugel
When these sort of ponderings arise, I consider my own feelings when in the role being examined (motorist, in this case). Being a human - and one with a highly variegated nature - I know that it's likely I'll suffer the same set of subconscious (and some conscious) mental churnings as many others driving their cars.....

Although I've learnt to suppress these feelings and attitudes when driving, here is a list of them that I discovered when first "doing motorist".

* I want to exert the power and speed offered by the machine.
* The driving experience is all about skill & control, so obstacles to doing so "at the edge" become a nuisance.
* There is a strange notion arising that "the road is mine" (or the bit of it I'm about to drive on is) - a property fetish type 31c.
* For no reason, the car induces the assumption that the time taken going from A to B must be as short as possible.
* Others on the road are a sort of enemy to my own success at progressing speedily and without hindrance to my power-control hysteria.

There are probably more. Personally I believe they are feelings potentially felt by any human, given the right stimulus. The stimulus in this case is the car and the technological/cultural designs involved, which invoke then amplify the above feelings and several others all to do with the thrill of exerting tremendous power (the engine, steering et al) to overcome physical difficulties (the road).

Many don't examine their behavior and it's motives; nor do they consider alternative mindsets resistant to those induced by driving a car. For them, a cyclist (and/or pedestrian, horse, tractor, caravan, other slower driver, traffic light, etc.) are all enemies attempting to subvert their overpowering desire to exert their overpowering car-power.

Cugel, who only goes mad on a bike now.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 8:39pm
by charliepolecat
You don't ride in the UK do you?


My cycling has mostly been in Norfolk (UK), Texas, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico.

Come July I will be riding the Inverness 1200.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 10:19pm
by mjr
charliepolecat wrote:
You don't ride in the UK do you?


My cycling has mostly been in Norfolk (UK), Texas, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico.

Come July I will be riding the Inverness 1200.

I was out riding in Norfolk today. About an hour, just to get some Naans from a particular shop on the fens. About a quarter on cycleways, the rest on C roads. Every car and van that passed me did so wonderfully, except for one Mercedes which made a complete mess of it, catching me just before a blind bend junction, then close-passing me on the exit.

I may have offered him some Gold Blend, if you know what I mean, as I didn't have my camera on. ;-)

Anyway, it really is getting pretty good here lately IMO. I credit Operation Close Pass and the local media work that supports it, like "See One, Think Two".

Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 10:43pm
by NUKe
Car are a status thing, they are there to make there owners feel superior. The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 11:05pm
by charliepolecat
The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.


No question about that. A holes are A holes no matter the situation.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 10:52am
by bigjim
charliepolecat wrote:
The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.


No question about that. A holes are A holes no matter the situation.

I'm just about to head out for a 27 mile circuit. I will be close passed constantly and the ones that move to the other side of the road are a rarity. I don't think the majority are malicious, just unskilled and dopey. There will be the odd deliberate close pass. Most just don't care. I'm used to it and have given up remonstrating. I've not found it any different on club runs in different areas or on UK tours. The continent is completely different. Though Portugal has had it's moments.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 11:37am
by Vorpal
I don't think cyclists are the only target. If you look at the comments section on certain sites, or follow some groups on Twitter, you see that mopeds, pedestrians, and anyone else who gets in the way of motorists are valid targets. And that people who step into the road without looking (especially if they are distracted by a mobile phone) deserve what they get.

Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 11:45am
by brynpoeth
R2 explained a while ago that drivers of small cars are bullied, I have a small car with a small engine, it is true
What if one has a small car that goes fast and has high status?

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 12:40pm
by Vorpal
brynpoeth wrote:R2 explained a while ago that drivers of small cars are bullied, I have a small car with a small engine, it is true
What if one has a small car that goes fast and has high status?


Expensive race cars have big engines. That counts for more than a big car.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 1:05pm
by robing
Vorpal wrote:I don't think cyclists are the only target. If you look at the comments section on certain sites, or follow some groups on Twitter, you see that mopeds, pedestrians, and anyone else who gets in the way of motorists are valid targets. And that people who step into the road without looking (especially if they are distracted by a mobile phone) deserve what they get.

Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

I agree. It's not just cyclists. These idiots think they own the roads and can go as fast as they like and nothing should slow them down, whether that's other traffic, pedestrians, lights, roundabouts. I see a lot of these when i am driving. I drive a decent speed, but I don't accelerate needlessly or speed up when it's obvious you are going to have to slow down soon. They only get held up at the next junction.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 6:52pm
by ambodach
It is not just cyclists. I have had a variety of vans over the years. A VW type2 with large steel bumpers was slow but got no hassle. Changed to a Bedford Rascal which was faster and quite nippy but got endless attempts at bullying. The best was a rusty Ford Transit. Everybody kept clear.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 8:49pm
by mjr
Vorpal wrote:Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

Oh no it doesn't. It enables massive flows of higher density traffic.

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 9:58pm
by al_yrpal
I have noticed that motorists vary with where you are in the country. Around here there is very little problem with ordinary motorists. The only consistent close passes seem to come from scruffy small white vans. The worst places I have experienced are semi urban places in North Wales, Cheshire and Lancashire, Transits and gas guzzler 4WDs. But, I havent cycled everywhere.

Al

Re: Fear.

Posted: 15 Jan 2019, 10:47pm
by Vorpal
mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

Oh no it doesn't. It enables massive flows of higher density traffic.

Sorry, I forgot [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] :wink: