Something new to watch out for! - suspiciously fast (motor-)bicycles

[Gattonero]

There's a couple of problems with e-bikes and e-scooters and e-skateboards alike:
-almost instant acceleration
-brakes that aren't upgraded
-user that may not be used to ride at such speed

Been able to go from zero to 20mph in a couple of seconds, anytime and anywhere, can be bliss for some but fear for others.
IMO, the should be strict regulations for any motor over 250w (just like there should be more fines levied on those stupid ones riding like nutters on non-assisted bikes)

That sounds more like a motorbike. I've never come across an e-bike that can accelerate from 0 - 20mph in a couple of seconds. 0-15.5mph in quite a few seconds, typically. Then the motor cuts out and the rider will need to be fairly fit to get up to 20mph, especially in just a couple of seconds.

Cugel

Just come to London: I've seen many overtaking petrol mopeds that were going well over 20mph, and e-scooters going easily over 15mph uphill. Those motors do not cut out. And here lies another problem...

[MikeF]

I'm not against e-bikes, I just think that the top speeds of them are too high for a significant number of users that has safety implications as well as giving the opportunity to crack the power train just as people did BITD on 50cc mopeds

I'm not against xxxx is usually the opening statement of someone who is

Top speed too high? Legally they are limited to 15mph. I'm a slow cyclist, ie I'm usually passed by many cyclists, and yet on the flat I exceed 15mph and of course downhill I might be travelling at double that speed. In 20mph zones I maybe travelling at or near to 20mph and yet I still have cars sitting on my tail or overtaking .

Electrically assisted bikes can accelerate from a standstill faster than non powered ones, and that's probably the main difference in most urban situations.

In the long term I think e bikes are more practical than the electric cars that the government seems to think is the panacea for travel.

[kwackers]

Here's a thing.
Suppose most of the e-bikes on the road can do 30mph.
So what?

The world isn't going to end. It's going to make no statistically measurable difference in KSI's.
In fact it seems to me the only people who actually give a toss are the 'proper' cyclists who despite claiming "I have no problem with e-bikes but" or "I like e-bikes but" actually do have a real problem with them.

The status quo has changed, relatively unfit folk and the more liberal thinking OAP's are taking to them in droves making all that hard won fitness count for naught. How annoying it must be to have someone overtaking who hasn't paid their dues. When you think about it you can almost begin to see why car drivers dislike cyclists!
I wonder if this attitude persists throughout the cycling world or just this forum where we do seem to have more than our fair share of conservative cycling types.

For the record most e-bikes even illegal ones won't do 30mph without a fair bit of effort from the rider - apart from downhill or off the top of a cliff.

[Phil Fouracre]

Perfect summation

[londoncommuter0000]

Cycling towards a familiar roundabout, check in my mirror for cars trying to exercise a last minute overtake when I'm suddenly buzzed by an electric bike clocking nearly 30mph.

I'm not sure where he came from (he possibly hopped off the adjacent cycle patch because he went back onto the cycle path after the roundabout) but I certainly didn't expect to have to be wary of such a beastie.

I believe you can fool the electric bike 15mph limit by simply telling the motor controller that your 29" wheel is actually 16", anyone else had this problem?

I encountered an e-bike on my commute up to London last year. Guy on the bike, headphones in, blissfully unaware of anything around him, as he sailed through red light after red light. I kid you not: he went through every single set of red lights, and the only time he slowed was when there was traffic coming perpendicular, and he would have been knocked off his bike if he hadn't slowed. But he didn't stop, and when the traffic cleared, he went on his way.

And of course, the laughable thing was that as we approached London Bridge, there I was - right behind him, and I had stopped at every light.

[The utility cyclist]

I'm not against e-bikes, I just think that the top speeds of them are too high for a significant number of users that has safety implications as well as giving the opportunity to crack the power train just as people did BITD on 50cc mopeds

I'm not against xxxx is usually the opening statement of someone who is

Top speed too high? Legally they are limited to 15mph. I'm a slow cyclist, ie I'm usually passed by many cyclists, and yet on the flat I exceed 15mph and of course downhill I might be travelling at double that speed. In 20mph zones I maybe travelling at or near to 20mph and yet I still have cars sitting on my tail or overtaking .

Electrically assisted bikes can accelerate from a standstill faster than non powered ones, and that's probably the main difference in most urban situations.

In the long term I think e bikes are more practical than the electric cars that the government seems to think is the panacea for travel.

Well you'd be wrong, I'm saying that the top speed is too high, there's no justifiable reason over the safety implication for it to be that high, and by definition it will extend the range.
The additional boost that it gives, the ease in which it assists as I said gives the user a 'high', in a similar way to how motorcyclists feel because they have it on tap, we had a discussion last year and one member talked about the euphoria it brought them to be able to go 'fast' at the drop of a hat.

If you'd actually read what I wrote (which seems to be a theme in the recent responses or failure to understand what's written) I did say some, those who aren't used to the speeds, you do realise that 16mph (not 15) is a lot faster than what many people ride at, particularly a significant proportion of those who do buy e-bikes.

People who potter at these slower speeds (like most of the Dutch do unless they have e-bikes) are not the ones who speed downhill nor are capable of cycling at 20mph on the flat, hence when they do get e-bikes they aren't able to judge the speed, the braking distances etc,
You can ignore the issue as much as you like but that even in the supposed safest cycling nation on the planet, they had a distinct increase in the groups that were buying e-bikes in big numbers, a complete reversal to the trend in the other groups.

E-bikes may be a solution to replace the car for urban transportation, and I'm all for that over electric cars and even trams/buses, but if we are to have bikes that will travel with virtually no physical input at a significant faster speed than some users are used to/capable of/are competent at and the acceleration of the std pedelecs, never mind the speed variants then we really need to look in greater detail with regards to the effects those aspects are having on not just the users but those around them too.

Maybe you forget but Charlie Alliston was found guilty of 'wanton and furious' doing as little as 10mph at the point of the collision with the pedestrian, according to Laura Thomas, that would be enough for him to be convicted of death by dangerous cycling if the law existed at the time and for him to be subject to imprisonment for up to 14 years (at time of her report in March 2018)

The thread was started with a 'something new to watch out for', and it's absolutely spot on and not just with respect to de-restricted/speed variants.

[Cugel]

I'm not against e-bikes, I just think that the top speeds of them are too high for a significant number of users that has safety implications as well as giving the opportunity to crack the power train just as people did BITD on 50cc mopeds

I'm not against xxxx is usually the opening statement of someone who is

Top speed too high? Legally they are limited to 15mph. I'm a slow cyclist, ie I'm usually passed by many cyclists, and yet on the flat I exceed 15mph and of course downhill I might be travelling at double that speed. In 20mph zones I maybe travelling at or near to 20mph and yet I still have cars sitting on my tail or overtaking .

Electrically assisted bikes can accelerate from a standstill faster than non powered ones, and that's probably the main difference in most urban situations.

In the long term I think e bikes are more practical than the electric cars that the government seems to think is the panacea for travel.

Well you'd be wrong, I'm saying that the top speed is too high, there's no justifiable reason over the safety implication for it to be that high, and by definition it will extend the range.
The additional boost that it gives, the ease in which it assists as I said gives the user a 'high', in a similar way to how motorcyclists feel because they have it on tap, we had a discussion last year and one member talked about the euphoria it brought them to be able to go 'fast' at the drop of a hat.

If you'd actually read what I wrote (which seems to be a theme in the recent responses or failure to understand what's written) I did say some, those who aren't used to the speeds, you do realise that 16mph (not 15) is a lot faster than what many people ride at, particularly a significant proportion of those who do buy e-bikes.

People who potter at these slower speeds (like most of the Dutch do unless they have e-bikes) are not the ones who speed downhill nor are capable of cycling at 20mph on the flat, hence when they do get e-bikes they aren't able to judge the speed, the braking distances etc,
You can ignore the issue as much as you like but that even in the supposed safest cycling nation on the planet, they had a distinct increase in the groups that were buying e-bikes in big numbers, a complete reversal to the trend in the other groups.

E-bikes may be a solution to replace the car for urban transportation, and I'm all for that over electric cars and even trams/buses, but if we are to have bikes that will travel with virtually no physical input at a significant faster speed than some users are used to/capable of/are competent at and the acceleration of the std pedelecs, never mind the speed variants then we really need to look in greater detail with regards to the effects those aspects are having on not just the users but those around them too.

Maybe you forget but Charlie Alliston was found guilty of 'wanton and furious' doing as little as 10mph at the point of the collision with the pedestrian, according to Laura Thomas, that would be enough for him to be convicted of death by dangerous cycling if the law existed at the time and for him to be subject to imprisonment for up to 14 years (at time of her report in March 2018)

The thread was started with a 'something new to watch out for', and it's absolutely spot on and not just with respect to de-restricted/speed variants.

You seem unable to process facts employing logic. This is a serious drawback during a discussion. Why not just say that you've taken agin' the e-bike because, well, you have?

Cugel

[Cugel]

Cycling towards a familiar roundabout, check in my mirror for cars trying to exercise a last minute overtake when I'm suddenly buzzed by an electric bike clocking nearly 30mph.

I'm not sure where he came from (he possibly hopped off the adjacent cycle patch because he went back onto the cycle path after the roundabout) but I certainly didn't expect to have to be wary of such a beastie.

I believe you can fool the electric bike 15mph limit by simply telling the motor controller that your 29" wheel is actually 16", anyone else had this problem?

I encountered an e-bike on my commute up to London last year. Guy on the bike, headphones in, blissfully unaware of anything around him, as he sailed through red light after red light. I kid you not: he went through every single set of red lights, and the only time he slowed was when there was traffic coming perpendicular, and he would have been knocked off his bike if he hadn't slowed. But he didn't stop, and when the traffic cleared, he went on his way.

And of course, the laughable thing was that as we approached London Bridge, there I was - right behind him, and I had stopped at every light.

Is this a proposition that all e-bike riders are like that then? If so, I must suggest that it's a false proposition.

I once saw a bloke on an ordinary bike ride into a bunch of schoolgirls. Must we all do the same to please someone's stereotype of cyclists!? No, despite the fact that it would make the day of The Hate Mail's editor as well as that of several other swivel-eyed loons with cyclist phobias.

Anyroadup, it's them unicyclists I would persecute, them with their wobbly one-wheeled wobbles. Arrest the lot, says I, before they eat a bairn they've just wobbled into!

Cugel

[mjr]

People who potter at these slower speeds (like most of the Dutch do unless they have e-bikes)

Well done on getting an irrational dig at Dutch bikes into an irrational rant against e-bikes!

You can ignore the issue as much as you like but that even in the supposed safest cycling nation on the planet, they had a distinct increase in the groups that were buying e-bikes in big numbers, a complete reversal to the trend in the other groups.

And yet, “If you consider the growing cycled distance and the number of deaths and injuries, then you must conclude that cycling is in fact becoming safer”, said Peter van der Knaap, director of the Institute for Road Safety Research (SWOV).

Plus as mentioned elsewhere on this forum, the Netherlands counts crashes while mounting or dismounting an ebike as a major source of cycling road casualties while it wouldn't even be included in UK road casualties. It's a bit naughty to recycle an already-debunked claim.

[Oldjohnw]

I have an ebike.

I have never worn headphones when cycling (or used a phone).

I have never buzzed a car at 30mph.

If I exceed approx 15mph it can only happen with human power.

It is true that standing start acceleration is impressive.

I was once knocked over coming down a Lakeland peak by a mountain bike. I have never assumed that all mountain bike cyclists would do that.

[Cugel]

I have an ebike.

I have never worn headphones when cycling (or used a phone).

I have never buzzed a car at 30mph.

If I exceed approx 15mph it can only happen with human power.

It is true that standing start acceleration is impressive.

I was once knocked over coming down a Lakeland peak by a mountain bike. I have never assumed that all mountain bike cyclists would do that.

Now, how do you expect to survive as a member of The Great British Public if you cannot work-up, lovingly-tend and increase a large number of stereotypes with associated prejudices!? How will you decide who to vote for if you are not au-fait with the current popular scapegoats and pariahs, not to mention the conspiracy theories?

I feel you need to go to the new Bluekip Skool for The Inculcation of Mad Notions, Enemy-spotting & Ekonomik Klaptrap before your non-postmodern attitudes infect the children, who may then become unruly when a politician attempts to "improve" their future with a copy of Friederick von Hyjakit's policy guide to being a swivel-eyed entrepreneur competent in every variety of property-annexation & planet degradation.

Cugel, off out with the ladywife this afternoon on her dangerous electric bike, to terrorise all forms of other road users with her 15.5mph.

[reohn2]

I encountered an e-bike on my commute up to London last year. Guy on the bike, headphones in, blissfully unaware of anything around him, as he sailed through red light after red light. I kid you not: he went through every single set of red lights, and the only time he slowed was when there was traffic coming perpendicular, and he would have been knocked off his bike if he hadn't slowed. But he didn't stop, and when the traffic cleared, he went on his way.

And of course, the laughable thing was that as we approached London Bridge, there I was - right behind him, and I had stopped at every light.

Would that same person have ridden any differently if the bike wasn't e-assisted?

[kwackers]

Would that same person have ridden any differently if the bike wasn't e-assisted?

No.
Ebikers are to cyclists as cyclists are to drivers.

I'm getting a sticker for my 'normal bikes': "Ebikers, take care when overtaking this bicycle on the right".

[thirdcrank]

Like so much in life, viable electric assistance arrived just a bit too late for me. I'd have been steaming up the A660 out of Otley dropping the chain gang with the air of Fabian Cancellara...

[reohn2]

Whatever anyone thinks of them e-bikes are here to stay.
Personally I think the 15.5mph assist is slightly low and would prefer it to be 20mph and think that a reasonable limit.
The more powerful 20+mph to 30mph max machines should be in a separate class of vehicle somewhere between bikes and mopeds,with compulsory reg plate,insurance,and 16 year old minimum age.
But I'm not sure how it'd be policed with the current state policing the UK today