Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

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londonbikerider
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Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 1 Apr 2019, 8:03am

Hello.

Apologies if this has been discussed already, I'm still a bit shaking after a small collision and verbal abuse from the driver of a lorry; the vehicle was parked on the short piece of cycle lane, at the end of Drayton Park leading to Holloway Road (London N7).

I would like to report the driver to the building company, as this behaviour is not acceptable. In my opinion there should be signs warning the cycle lane is closed, or am I wrong?

And the funny thing is, on Google maps it shows the lorry right there, so it's something that has been going on a little while by now.
There's a few cyclists and pedestrians using that junction all day long, I may consider to contact a local group to take action before someone gets hurt.

Thanks

(this is the link to the street view in Google Maps)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/51%C2 ... -0.1091553

reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Apr 2019, 8:33am

Was it unloading or simply parked there?
What was the nature of the collision?
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DaveReading
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby DaveReading » 1 Apr 2019, 8:34am

If the lane was demarcated with a solid line (mandatory cycle-only lane) then I believe the driver would be committing an offence.

A dashed line, as in this case, is subject to different rules.

londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 1 Apr 2019, 8:42am

reohn2 wrote:Was it unloading or simply parked there?
What was the nature of the collision?


I touched the shoulder of the guy unloading stuff, the lorry engine was switched off with no parking lights on, and was certainly parked there by a little while, since I had seen the lorry well ahead.
The driver didn't really care about oncoming traffic and was standing over the dashed marks of the cycle lane, in fact was on the road for all vehicles. I completely understand they have to do their job, but I don't think this is right to do it this way.

DaveReading wrote:If the lane was demarcated with a solid line (mandatory cycle-only lane) then I believe the driver would be committing an offence.
A dashed line, as in this case, is subject to different rules.


Yes, I know the dashed line may allow a driver to park there, I'm not sure for how long though

reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Apr 2019, 8:45am

You're not explaining ourself very well and as a result it's not very clar what the problem is.
If a lorry needs to unload at a given address then it needs to park there whilst doing so.
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robing
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby robing » 1 Apr 2019, 9:27am

You haven't explained what the small collision was. Did you hit him or did he hit you?

londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 1 Apr 2019, 2:15pm

robing wrote:You haven't explained what the small collision was. Did you hit him or did he hit you?

reohn2 wrote:You're not explaining ourself very well and as a result it's not very clar what the problem is.
If a lorry needs to unload at a given address then it needs to park there whilst doing so.


Sorry guys, I thought what I wrote above was enough.
I touched the shoulder of the guy unloading stuff, the lorry engine was switched off with no parking lights on, and was certainly parked there by a little while, since I had seen the lorry well ahead.
The driver didn't really care about oncoming traffic and was standing over the dashed marks of the cycle lane, in fact was on the road for all vehicles. I completely understand they have to do their job, but I don't think this is right to do it this way.

Like said, I understand the need for people to do their job, but I cannot agree if this means to cause inconvenience or even danger for other road users. Furthermore, I cannot condone the agressive behaviour of the driver, who was walking towards me and shouting. There was no need to do so.

peetee
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby peetee » 1 Apr 2019, 3:50pm

Given the location and sight line available and the nature of the vehicle concerned it would be very unwise to pass within 1m of any part of it and at no more than 10mph. If it were me I would or passing virtually in the centre of the road or waiting for oncoming traffic and using the other side of the road if it were further out than the Google earth photo.
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mjr
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby mjr » 1 Apr 2019, 3:59pm

londonbikerider wrote:Sorry guys, I thought what I wrote above was enough.

Clearly not. What you wrote is ambiguous.

However, given the lorry seems to park there often enough to be on street view, maybe the police might like a word about obstructing the highway, or the local council might like to consider loading restrictions - ask them?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Apr 2019, 4:19pm

londonbikerider wrote:
robing wrote:You haven't explained what the small collision was. Did you hit him or did he hit you?

reohn2 wrote:You're not explaining ourself very well and as a result it's not very clar what the problem is.
If a lorry needs to unload at a given address then it needs to park there whilst doing so.


Sorry guys, I thought what I wrote above was enough.
I touched the shoulder of the guy unloading stuff, the lorry engine was switched off with no parking lights on, and was certainly parked there by a little while, since I had seen the lorry well ahead.
The driver didn't really care about oncoming traffic and was standing over the dashed marks of the cycle lane, in fact was on the road for all vehicles. I completely understand they have to do their job, but I don't think this is right to do it this way.

Like said, I understand the need for people to do their job, but I cannot agree if this means to cause inconvenience or even danger for other road users. Furthermore, I cannot condone the agressive behaviour of the driver, who was walking towards me and shouting. There was no need to do so.

It's still not clear just what happened or your position on the road.
The lorry is a scaffold truck which I'd assume was either loading or unloading due to it being parked there,on appoach I would give at least the width of the lorry's open door and allow for someone walking from around the front of it.The driver and crew have a job to do in tight circumstances so need plenty of room.
As for parking in the cycle lane,unless there's parking on site off the road they don't have much choice in where to park to un/load and usually scaffold crews do like to have their tube,fittings and boards close to hand as they erect straight off the truck.
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thelawnet
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby thelawnet » 1 Apr 2019, 4:40pm

Firstly the traffic signs:

* the cycle lane is an advisory cycle lane, as denoted by the broken line. This means that anyone can enter it for a lawful purpose (in this case unloading)
* secondly, the yellow line, where the truck is parked. This is marked by this sign

https://www.google.com/maps/place/51%C2 ... -0.1091553

This is a yellow 'no waiting' sign. which has a time written on it.

'No waiting' is not the same as 'no loading' so in general it is entirely lawful for the lorry to stop there for so long as it takes to unload its stuff.

The truck MIGHT be parked there all day, but that is not necessarily the case - it could be regularly loading and unloading stuff from there, which could take an hour or two a day so it's not conclusive necessarily if it is there every day. However as a general principle it should park elsewhere when not loading, but in practice I guess that doesn't happen as where would you go? But anyway, it's sufficient to say that it's

(a) predictable that vehicles will be in 'advisory cycle lanes'
(b) lawful that vehicles will be in 'advisory cycle lanes'

so they shouldn't ever take you by surprise.

As far as the collision you mention goes, I'm none the wiser as to what happened. If the cycle lane is blocked then you would just move out, I'm not really understanding how a 'collision' took place?

Pete Owens
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Apr 2019, 4:43pm

The times you are allowed to park there are shown on this sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/51%C2%B033'02.8%22N+0%C2%B006'33.0%22W/@51.5506299,-0.1093324,3a,15y,58.7h,93.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm6TgyK7xJQ66_aTPXUhKqw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x48761ba02c403d65:0x28c30ee5f70a16c8!2sSalterton+Rd,+London+N7+6BB!3b1!8m2!3d51.5593966!4d-0.1182748!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.5507646!4d-0.1091553
and also on the yellow plates a few metres behind the truck.

In any case pavement parking is illegal in London.

However, you should not have crashed into him, whether or not you thought he should be there in the first place. And firing off verbal abuse when you have just been hit by a vehicle is perfectly understandable.

londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 1 Apr 2019, 6:06pm

thelawnet wrote:Firstly the traffic signs:

* the cycle lane is an advisory cycle lane, as denoted by the broken line. This means that anyone can enter it for a lawful purpose (in this case unloading)
* secondly, the yellow line, where the truck is parked. This is marked by this sign

https://www.google.com/maps/place/51%C2 ... -0.1091553

This is a yellow 'no waiting' sign. which has a time written on it.

'No waiting' is not the same as 'no loading' so in general it is entirely lawful for the lorry to stop there for so long as it takes to unload its stuff.

The truck MIGHT be parked there all day, but that is not necessarily the case - it could be regularly loading and unloading stuff from there, which could take an hour or two a day so it's not conclusive necessarily if it is there every day. However as a general principle it should park elsewhere when not loading, but in practice I guess that doesn't happen as where would you go? But anyway, it's sufficient to say that it's

(a) predictable that vehicles will be in 'advisory cycle lanes'
(b) lawful that vehicles will be in 'advisory cycle lanes'

so they shouldn't ever take you by surprise.

As far as the collision you mention goes, I'm none the wiser as to what happened. If the cycle lane is blocked then you would just move out, I'm not really understanding how a 'collision' took place?


That's helpful, thanks.
Looks like I've been too optimistic in what I'm allowed to do while cycling in town.

robing
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby robing » 1 Apr 2019, 6:42pm

londonbikerider wrote:
robing wrote:You haven't explained what the small collision was. Did you hit him or did he hit you?

reohn2 wrote:You're not explaining ourself very well and as a result it's not very clar what the problem is.
If a lorry needs to unload at a given address then it needs to park there whilst doing so.


Sorry guys, I thought what I wrote above was enough.
I touched the shoulder of the guy unloading stuff


It's still not clear. Did you a/ Ride your bike into him as he was unloading stuff? b/ Did you tap him on the shoulder and ask him to move out of the way? c/ something else.

pwa
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby pwa » 2 Apr 2019, 9:49am

I've never been clear about what the legal situation is with stopping to deliver goods where there is a cycle lane. I know that for simple double yellow lines with no markings on the kerb there is a twenty minute allowance for legitimate loading / unloading.